11 ms·

> Does it support GUI apps? Almost!

kayodelycaon 6y ago
I'm kind of curious what non-GUI Mac apps exist. The built-in system utilities maybe? CUPS and Webkit both run on linux natively.
- kccqzy 6y ago
  Plenty of Apple-provided utilities like diskutil, hdiutil, etc.
  - kayodelycaon 6y ago
    So... built-in system utilities.
  - duskwuff 6y ago
    Those two aren't particularly interesting outside macOS/iOS -- they're mostly just front-ends. The real implementation is in diskarbitrationd and the kernel.
- trothamel 6y ago
  Most of the Xcode build system is non-gui. Having things like xcode-build, codesign, altool, etc. running on a non-mac would be great for continuous integration purposes. (If it didn't violate some arbitrary Apple rule.)
  - judge2020 6y ago
    > If it didn't violate some arbitrary Apple rule > You are expressly prohibited from separately using the Apple SDKs or attempting to run any part of the Apple Software on non-Apple-branded hardware. Better be running linux on a Mac mini somewhere. https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/xcode.pdf https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/xcode.pdf
    - jeroenhd 6y ago
      I have strong doubts about the legal enforceability of those requirements in the EULA in many jurisdictions. I strongly doubt such a requirement would fly in many European countries, for example. Statically linking the library might be preventable because it involves spreading Apple's code, but if you run a legally obtained program that generates code not containing any libraries on your own computer, I doubt there's anything that the EULA can prevent you from developing that way.
      - sneak 6y ago
        “obtaining” a program is not a license to use it.
        beagle3 6y ago
        Some places still observe the "first sale doctrine" which means that if you legally got a copy of a piece of software, you have a right to use it whichever way you please -- so, in such a jurisdiction, as long as you obtained it legally, you have the right to use it. (Analogy: You buy a music CD; You do not need a specific license to listen to it, and you're not violating anything even if it has a sticker that says "by opening this sticker, you hereby agree to never play this using a Sony CD player, and to never play it at faster than 1.25x on any non-Sony CD player)
      - judge2020 6y ago
        I agree, this provision is probably only there to knock people trying to run MacOS and related software on Cloud services as a managed service (think Mac Stadium but not using Apple hardware). Using it just for your org or for personal use isn't going to cause Apple to send you a C&D letter/file suit.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - solarexplorer 6y ago
      > Better be running linux on a Mac mini somewhere. At least we could use Docker! ..and get actually reproducible builds...
- monocasa 6y ago
  My unit tests and some integration tests. Yes, it's not as good as running them native, but running Linux native and darwin and windows in Darling and Wine is a very nice 80/20 for some of my work.
- lathiat 6y ago
  Bonjour Compatibility Test
- banana_giraffe 6y ago
  There are some utilities around creating and validating HLS streams that would be useful to run on non-MacOS cloud machines. I haven't checked, though I'm fairly sure the license says you're lot allowed to, though.
- askvictor 6y ago
  I've recently been developing a cross-platform (gui) app in python + qt. I develop on a Windows machine, but want to run pyinstaller on a Mac to make a Mac package available. Unfortunately, not having a Mac, I can't do this simple thing. I played around briefly trying to (illegally) get a MacOS VM running, but gave up. This would solve my problems (well, not testing that it actually works as expected on a Mac, but much better than nothing)
  - Hamuko 6y ago
    Why not just use a CI server?
    - lmm 6y ago
      Doesn't that have the same problem? You have to get hold of a CI server running OSX, either physical or in the cloud, and neither is easy since they're expensive and non-rackmountable.
      - Hamuko 6y ago
        Define easy. Travis CI is free for open source and probably not prohibitely expensive for businesses. CircleCI might be even cheaper.
      - Karliss 6y ago
        You don't need a dedicated server running macOS, which would be more problematic as you say. There are plenty of CI services supporting macOS. Looking at the pricing sheets of CircleCi, Github actions and TravisCI. CircleCI was only one listing lower maximum concurrent and varying cost based on machine size and type. Others only listed total minutes without differentiation between machines. As long as you are using it only for making builds and daily testing instead of anything compute intensive that takes long time, the prices should be reasonable. There are also free tiers for open source projects. In my experience developing cross platform open source software, doing builds isn't the biggest problem. The situations when you need to debug platform specific behaviour, integration with OS and verifying that your software is properly packaged for macOS is when you might want direct access to a real machine.
- fuzzy2 6y ago
  Printer drivers! :D I have a GDI laser printer that comes with Mac drivers. I really want them to work on Linux.
  - aequitas 6y ago
    Since macOS is using CUPS under the hood for printing this should not really be a problem.
    - fuzzy2 6y ago
      The drivers comes with a command-line program that processes the input postscript(?) data into a proprietary image format the printer understands. This program is a native Mach-O executable that cannot run under Linux (without Darling or whatever). (It’s called “RicohAficioSPC231SFFilter”.)

I'm kind of curious what non-GUI Mac apps exist. The built-in system utilities maybe? CUPS and Webkit both run on linux natively.

kccqzy 6y ago
Plenty of Apple-provided utilities like diskutil, hdiutil, etc.
- kayodelycaon 6y ago
  So... built-in system utilities.
- duskwuff 6y ago
  Those two aren't particularly interesting outside macOS/iOS -- they're mostly just front-ends. The real implementation is in diskarbitrationd and the kernel.
trothamel 6y ago
Most of the Xcode build system is non-gui. Having things like xcode-build, codesign, altool, etc. running on a non-mac would be great for continuous integration purposes. (If it didn't violate some arbitrary Apple rule.)
- judge2020 6y ago
  > If it didn't violate some arbitrary Apple rule > You are expressly prohibited from separately using the Apple SDKs or attempting to run any part of the Apple Software on non-Apple-branded hardware. Better be running linux on a Mac mini somewhere. https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/xcode.pdf https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/xcode.pdf
  - jeroenhd 6y ago
    I have strong doubts about the legal enforceability of those requirements in the EULA in many jurisdictions. I strongly doubt such a requirement would fly in many European countries, for example. Statically linking the library might be preventable because it involves spreading Apple's code, but if you run a legally obtained program that generates code not containing any libraries on your own computer, I doubt there's anything that the EULA can prevent you from developing that way.
    - sneak 6y ago
      “obtaining” a program is not a license to use it.
      - beagle3 6y ago
        Some places still observe the "first sale doctrine" which means that if you legally got a copy of a piece of software, you have a right to use it whichever way you please -- so, in such a jurisdiction, as long as you obtained it legally, you have the right to use it. (Analogy: You buy a music CD; You do not need a specific license to listen to it, and you're not violating anything even if it has a sticker that says "by opening this sticker, you hereby agree to never play this using a Sony CD player, and to never play it at faster than 1.25x on any non-Sony CD player)
    - judge2020 6y ago
      I agree, this provision is probably only there to knock people trying to run MacOS and related software on Cloud services as a managed service (think Mac Stadium but not using Apple hardware). Using it just for your org or for personal use isn't going to cause Apple to send you a C&D letter/file suit.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - solarexplorer 6y ago
    > Better be running linux on a Mac mini somewhere. At least we could use Docker! ..and get actually reproducible builds...
monocasa 6y ago
My unit tests and some integration tests. Yes, it's not as good as running them native, but running Linux native and darwin and windows in Darling and Wine is a very nice 80/20 for some of my work.
lathiat 6y ago
Bonjour Compatibility Test
banana_giraffe 6y ago
There are some utilities around creating and validating HLS streams that would be useful to run on non-MacOS cloud machines. I haven't checked, though I'm fairly sure the license says you're lot allowed to, though.
askvictor 6y ago
I've recently been developing a cross-platform (gui) app in python + qt. I develop on a Windows machine, but want to run pyinstaller on a Mac to make a Mac package available. Unfortunately, not having a Mac, I can't do this simple thing. I played around briefly trying to (illegally) get a MacOS VM running, but gave up. This would solve my problems (well, not testing that it actually works as expected on a Mac, but much better than nothing)
- Hamuko 6y ago
  Why not just use a CI server?
  - lmm 6y ago
    Doesn't that have the same problem? You have to get hold of a CI server running OSX, either physical or in the cloud, and neither is easy since they're expensive and non-rackmountable.
    - Hamuko 6y ago
      Define easy. Travis CI is free for open source and probably not prohibitely expensive for businesses. CircleCI might be even cheaper.
    - Karliss 6y ago
      You don't need a dedicated server running macOS, which would be more problematic as you say. There are plenty of CI services supporting macOS. Looking at the pricing sheets of CircleCi, Github actions and TravisCI. CircleCI was only one listing lower maximum concurrent and varying cost based on machine size and type. Others only listed total minutes without differentiation between machines. As long as you are using it only for making builds and daily testing instead of anything compute intensive that takes long time, the prices should be reasonable. There are also free tiers for open source projects. In my experience developing cross platform open source software, doing builds isn't the biggest problem. The situations when you need to debug platform specific behaviour, integration with OS and verifying that your software is properly packaged for macOS is when you might want direct access to a real machine.
fuzzy2 6y ago
Printer drivers! :D I have a GDI laser printer that comes with Mac drivers. I really want them to work on Linux.
- aequitas 6y ago
  Since macOS is using CUPS under the hood for printing this should not really be a problem.
  - fuzzy2 6y ago
    The drivers comes with a command-line program that processes the input postscript(?) data into a proprietary image format the printer understands. This program is a native Mach-O executable that cannot run under Linux (without Darling or whatever). (It’s called “RicohAficioSPC231SFFilter”.)