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How does self-reliance fit into your worldview? Wouldn't you agree that it's generally a bad thing to be reliant on an entity you can't control for survival?

by umvi 6y ago

Gibbon1 6y ago
Observation by one of my dads friends. If people truly understood how little control they have over things they'd go mad.
srtjstjsj 6y ago
As long as you're OK with being self-reliant when the hungry homeless come to move into your home and loot your local grocery store and raid your local hospital, sure, self-reliance sound great. Or did you mean self-reliance for the poor, but not for the rich?
hunterloftis 6y ago
I believe this is why OP brought up the birthright social contract. Given an absence of society, it’s fair to argue self-reliance, and that no one should have to carry another. However, being born into a society strips you of certain natural rights. You can’t just choose a nice place to build shelter for yourself - that’s “property” and it’s owned by someone already. You can’t hunt or farm your own food for similar reasons. Society demands, from birth, that you follow social laws that limit your own ability to be self-reliant. I believe it’s reasonable then when OP proposes that the balance of that social contract might mean that society should also provide a safety net for the basic necessities of life.
- umvi 6y ago
  Sure, I agree with that. However, I guess my point is: - If someone is reliant on the government for basic necessities of life, should they ideally work to reach a state where they can provide for themselves using their own income/skills/etc. and wean themselves off of government aid? - If the answer to the previous question is 'yes', how can we subsidize/incentive getting off of government aid? It seems to me that it's easy to get stuck in an inter-generational trench where the government provides your food, shelter, etc. I'm interested in how to help people help themselves.
threatofrain 6y ago
Self reliance in 2020? We are all part of massive machines now, and nobody is walking back.
jlokier 6y ago
If there's any spare land left where you're allowed to build and live, sure. In some countries there is. In some there isn't. Where I live, no chance, people who have found unoccupied patches and built on them tend to eventually have their property destroyed by government. So maybe you're thinking, move countries. Nope. A lot of people in the world are prevented from moving to countries they'd like to move to. Heck, sometimes married couples are prevented from being together. It's a pretty restrictive world.

How does self-reliance fit into your worldview? Wouldn't you agree that it's generally a bad thing to be reliant on an entity you can't control for survival?

by umvi 6y ago

How does self-reliance fit into your worldview? Wouldn't you agree that it's generally a bad thing to be reliant on an entity you can't control for survival?

Gibbon1 6y ago

Observation by one of my dads friends. If people truly understood how little control they have over things they'd go mad.

srtjstjsj 6y ago

As long as you're OK with being self-reliant when the hungry homeless come to move into your home and loot your local grocery store and raid your local hospital, sure, self-reliance sound great. Or did you mean self-reliance for the poor, but not for the rich?

hunterloftis 6y ago

I believe this is why OP brought up the birthright social contract. Given an absence of society, it’s fair to argue self-reliance, and that no one should have to carry another. However, being born into a society strips you of certain natural rights. You can’t just choose a nice place to build shelter for yourself - that’s “property” and it’s owned by someone already. You can’t hunt or farm your own food for similar reasons. Society demands, from birth, that you follow social laws that limit your own ability to be self-reliant. I believe it’s reasonable then when OP proposes that the balance of that social contract might mean that society should also provide a safety net for the basic necessities of life.

umvi 6y ago
Sure, I agree with that. However, I guess my point is: - If someone is reliant on the government for basic necessities of life, should they ideally work to reach a state where they can provide for themselves using their own income/skills/etc. and wean themselves off of government aid? - If the answer to the previous question is 'yes', how can we subsidize/incentive getting off of government aid? It seems to me that it's easy to get stuck in an inter-generational trench where the government provides your food, shelter, etc. I'm interested in how to help people help themselves.

threatofrain 6y ago

Self reliance in 2020? We are all part of massive machines now, and nobody is walking back.

jlokier 6y ago

If there's any spare land left where you're allowed to build and live, sure. In some countries there is. In some there isn't. Where I live, no chance, people who have found unoccupied patches and built on them tend to eventually have their property destroyed by government. So maybe you're thinking, move countries. Nope. A lot of people in the world are prevented from moving to countries they'd like to move to. Heck, sometimes married couples are prevented from being together. It's a pretty restrictive world.