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Auto racing will just never be the same. I don’t even think EV racing will evolve the sport. The golden days of auto racing involved real innovation like creati

Auto racing will just never be the same. I don’t even think EV racing will evolve the sport. The golden days of auto racing involved real innovation like creating super chargers, turbos, certain efficiencies, and improvements in potting, etc. There was a time when we just didn’t know what could be done to build an engine that could run near the edge without blowing. I don’t think EV will ever have its equivalent. Just not the same as taking an ICE and tweaking it through mechanical engineering to find new performance gains. End of an era but that’s progress. Maybe fully mechanical cars will find a way to exist as a sport. But I imagine people will lose interest over a few generations. But then, horses still race.

zachrose 6y ago
I imagine that Formula E will support more innovation as they grow, with more suppliers and a contested regulations.
galaxyLogic 6y ago
Where I live often times I hear from the street below a group young men riding motorcycles down the street as a group. A bit of mad Max in it. They make a lot of sound and some drivers make their bikes ride in a upright position with only the read wheel on the road. I can see they're having lots of fun, partly because of the loud roaring sound their engines make. They make their presence known. It makes me wonder what will the kids do in a few years when all bikes are electric.
- names_are_hard 6y ago
  At first I thought this post was going to be someone complaining about hooligans on motorcycles doing wheelies in their otherwise quiet neighborhood, wishing they'd just go away. Thanks for not going there, I appreciate it. I'm someone who enjoys riding a motorcycle fast (on a racetrack, wearing leathers, because I don't want to die and because I like tickets). I can tell you that I very much wish my bike was quieter, even silent. I hate that it bothers the neighbors when I start it early in the morning on a weekend, I hate that it annoys others when I ride on the street. I used to think the noise was part of what made it fun or cool, now I think it's just an unfortunate side effect of one the things that make it fun and cool[0]. Unfortunately electric motorcycles have too many downsides right now to be a viable alternative.
  - Jnr 6y ago
    I think that the noise is one of the better safety features of motorcycles. Without the noise you would be invisible and I think even more accidents would happen.
    - 4ggr0 6y ago
      I think that's just a lie motorbikers tell themselves. Exhausts are pointed backwards. Cars are built so well today that they barely let in any noise. I was surprised so many times while driving a car, because a motorbike was suddenly overtaking me out of nowhere. I can't even hear a motorbike passing me when I am on a motorbike myself, up to the point when the other rider is right next to me. They maybe help pedestrians and cyclists, but cars, trucks, other bikes etc. don't really hear motorbikes.
    - lm28469 6y ago
      You can only hear them at slow speed. Anything above 50kph and the air noise make it impossible to hear. Motorcycles are invisible because a lot people don't take driving seriously and don't check their mirrors/blind spots. The only time I got into an accident was at a red light. I was stopped in front of a car, which was also stopped. The light went green and the car rear ended me, this was mid day, 100% visibility, my bike was bright red, you can't fix stupid.
    - mywittyname 6y ago
      The noise from motorcycles is projected behind the bike, so it's not terribly effective at alerting unaware people to their presences. And, as most people who've tried to determine the direction an ambulance is approaching from will tell you: it's really hard to locate objects based on sound emissions alone from within a car cabin because of the acoustics of a cabin end up reflecting the audio all around the driver. If you want to stand out on a motorcycle, use your lights and wear bright, reflective clothing. Even then, you have to accept that you'll never have the presence of an automobile, so drive accordingly.
  - 4ggr0 6y ago
    Fully agree. I ride a CBR 600 and although I of course like the sound I really wouldn't mind if it was silent. The acceleration of EV motorbikes is insane as well. And top speed doesn't even matter because of speed limits on public roads. Of course, for you as a racer, top speed is a bigger concern.
nexuist 6y ago
Surely there is room for innovating outside of ICE and electric engines; what about land based rocket engines? I'm sure there's a lot to work on there ;)
fomine3 6y ago
Agreed. EV is relatively simple tech and current restriction is battery's capacity for price/weight/volume. I don't think EV components can get much improvements from racing like ICE engines.
- rocqua 6y ago
  Better kinetic harvesting seems like the main thing to be gained.
rodgerd 6y ago
> The golden days of auto racing involved real innovation like creating super chargers, turbos, certain efficiencies, and improvements in potting, etc. More importantly there's a huge disconnect in many formulae and the general industry on innovation outside the powertrain: driver assists are mostly banned, for example. So I can buy a mid-range, decade-old car with dynamic suspension and stability control, but you'll not see that in pretty much any track car.
whatever1 6y ago
There is also another downside. With an EV you never get to “bond” with the machine. You don’t get the sound feedback from the engine, you don’t get to “feel” its struggle to produce work. Same goes for the spectators. 90% of the incentive to watch live a car racing event is to get to hear the roaring sounds. Not sure what can be done in the EV world to approach that.
- gwicks56 6y ago
  I saw the Ferrari V12's at the end of straight in Adelaide ('94 I think). I have not heard anything else like it.
- exDM69 6y ago
  > 90% of the incentive to watch live a car racing event is to get to hear the roaring sounds Modern F1 cars are quite silent. I went to a Grand Prix last year, and the loudest trackside noise I heard all weekend was the sound of punctured tyres slapping against the road when the drivers were limping it to the pits. F2 engines were a bit louder, but not by much. Ear protection was not needed. Formula E sounds kinda cool in its own way, the sound is like some sci-fi space craft from the Star Wars universe passing by.
jillesvangurp 6y ago
People still race horses, just saying. I don't think the entertainment value of driving loud and exciting cars will massively change but it's rapidly becoming a nostalgic thing. What is changing is that ICE based car racing is becoming merely an expensive hobby rather than a business relevant thing for engine manufacturers to be spending money on. The money is solidly in the EV market. That's where essentially all of the money and profits are. Now that even super cars are electric and generally outperforming their ICE predecessors on things like horse power, torque, 0-60 acceleration, etc. the glamour kind of is evaporating rapidly for F1 racing. Yes the range of these things sucks. But then their petrol equivalents were never known for their range either. The point is raw performance for however long the engines, tires, and fuel last. Electric at this point is superior on pretty much all fronts.
- nemo44x 6y ago
  Yeah I mentioned horses at the end of my comment. I think the big difference is horse racing isn’t so much entertainment for enthusiasts as it is a gambling endeavor. If we took the ability to wager on each race I’m not sure it would exist.
anticensor 6y ago
> Just not the same as taking an ICE and tweaking it through mechanical engineering to find new performance gains. Why will replacing mechanical engineering by electrical engineering not give the same result in EVs? Because we are already almost 100% electrically efficient? Thermal issues? Energy density issues?

zachrose 6y ago

I imagine that Formula E will support more innovation as they grow, with more suppliers and a contested regulations.

galaxyLogic 6y ago

Where I live often times I hear from the street below a group young men riding motorcycles down the street as a group. A bit of mad Max in it. They make a lot of sound and some drivers make their bikes ride in a upright position with only the read wheel on the road. I can see they're having lots of fun, partly because of the loud roaring sound their engines make. They make their presence known. It makes me wonder what will the kids do in a few years when all bikes are electric.

names_are_hard 6y ago
At first I thought this post was going to be someone complaining about hooligans on motorcycles doing wheelies in their otherwise quiet neighborhood, wishing they'd just go away. Thanks for not going there, I appreciate it. I'm someone who enjoys riding a motorcycle fast (on a racetrack, wearing leathers, because I don't want to die and because I like tickets). I can tell you that I very much wish my bike was quieter, even silent. I hate that it bothers the neighbors when I start it early in the morning on a weekend, I hate that it annoys others when I ride on the street. I used to think the noise was part of what made it fun or cool, now I think it's just an unfortunate side effect of one the things that make it fun and cool[0]. Unfortunately electric motorcycles have too many downsides right now to be a viable alternative.
- Jnr 6y ago
  I think that the noise is one of the better safety features of motorcycles. Without the noise you would be invisible and I think even more accidents would happen.
  - 4ggr0 6y ago
    I think that's just a lie motorbikers tell themselves. Exhausts are pointed backwards. Cars are built so well today that they barely let in any noise. I was surprised so many times while driving a car, because a motorbike was suddenly overtaking me out of nowhere. I can't even hear a motorbike passing me when I am on a motorbike myself, up to the point when the other rider is right next to me. They maybe help pedestrians and cyclists, but cars, trucks, other bikes etc. don't really hear motorbikes.
  - lm28469 6y ago
    You can only hear them at slow speed. Anything above 50kph and the air noise make it impossible to hear. Motorcycles are invisible because a lot people don't take driving seriously and don't check their mirrors/blind spots. The only time I got into an accident was at a red light. I was stopped in front of a car, which was also stopped. The light went green and the car rear ended me, this was mid day, 100% visibility, my bike was bright red, you can't fix stupid.
  - mywittyname 6y ago
    The noise from motorcycles is projected behind the bike, so it's not terribly effective at alerting unaware people to their presences. And, as most people who've tried to determine the direction an ambulance is approaching from will tell you: it's really hard to locate objects based on sound emissions alone from within a car cabin because of the acoustics of a cabin end up reflecting the audio all around the driver. If you want to stand out on a motorcycle, use your lights and wear bright, reflective clothing. Even then, you have to accept that you'll never have the presence of an automobile, so drive accordingly.
- 4ggr0 6y ago
  Fully agree. I ride a CBR 600 and although I of course like the sound I really wouldn't mind if it was silent. The acceleration of EV motorbikes is insane as well. And top speed doesn't even matter because of speed limits on public roads. Of course, for you as a racer, top speed is a bigger concern.

nexuist 6y ago

Surely there is room for innovating outside of ICE and electric engines; what about land based rocket engines? I'm sure there's a lot to work on there ;)

fomine3 6y ago

Agreed. EV is relatively simple tech and current restriction is battery's capacity for price/weight/volume. I don't think EV components can get much improvements from racing like ICE engines.

rocqua 6y ago
Better kinetic harvesting seems like the main thing to be gained.

rodgerd 6y ago

> The golden days of auto racing involved real innovation like creating super chargers, turbos, certain efficiencies, and improvements in potting, etc. More importantly there's a huge disconnect in many formulae and the general industry on innovation outside the powertrain: driver assists are mostly banned, for example. So I can buy a mid-range, decade-old car with dynamic suspension and stability control, but you'll not see that in pretty much any track car.

whatever1 6y ago

There is also another downside. With an EV you never get to “bond” with the machine. You don’t get the sound feedback from the engine, you don’t get to “feel” its struggle to produce work. Same goes for the spectators. 90% of the incentive to watch live a car racing event is to get to hear the roaring sounds. Not sure what can be done in the EV world to approach that.

gwicks56 6y ago
I saw the Ferrari V12's at the end of straight in Adelaide ('94 I think). I have not heard anything else like it.
exDM69 6y ago
> 90% of the incentive to watch live a car racing event is to get to hear the roaring sounds Modern F1 cars are quite silent. I went to a Grand Prix last year, and the loudest trackside noise I heard all weekend was the sound of punctured tyres slapping against the road when the drivers were limping it to the pits. F2 engines were a bit louder, but not by much. Ear protection was not needed. Formula E sounds kinda cool in its own way, the sound is like some sci-fi space craft from the Star Wars universe passing by.

jillesvangurp 6y ago

People still race horses, just saying. I don't think the entertainment value of driving loud and exciting cars will massively change but it's rapidly becoming a nostalgic thing. What is changing is that ICE based car racing is becoming merely an expensive hobby rather than a business relevant thing for engine manufacturers to be spending money on. The money is solidly in the EV market. That's where essentially all of the money and profits are. Now that even super cars are electric and generally outperforming their ICE predecessors on things like horse power, torque, 0-60 acceleration, etc. the glamour kind of is evaporating rapidly for F1 racing. Yes the range of these things sucks. But then their petrol equivalents were never known for their range either. The point is raw performance for however long the engines, tires, and fuel last. Electric at this point is superior on pretty much all fronts.

nemo44x 6y ago
Yeah I mentioned horses at the end of my comment. I think the big difference is horse racing isn’t so much entertainment for enthusiasts as it is a gambling endeavor. If we took the ability to wager on each race I’m not sure it would exist.

anticensor 6y ago

> Just not the same as taking an ICE and tweaking it through mechanical engineering to find new performance gains. Why will replacing mechanical engineering by electrical engineering not give the same result in EVs? Because we are already almost 100% electrically efficient? Thermal issues? Energy density issues?