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With the automobile market transitioning to EV, it is inevitable that F1 will be rebooted as an EV contest. Expect Honda to re-enter then, particularly if Moto

With the automobile market transitioning to EV, it is inevitable that F1 will be rebooted as an EV contest. Expect Honda to re-enter then, particularly if MotoGP goes EV first.

JshWright 6y ago
So, Formula E?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- snuxoll 6y ago
  Formula E also has a monopoly on FIA sanctioned all-electric single seater racing for 25 seasons, so F1 cannot go full EV until 2039 at minimum unless contracts get renegotiated. Will be interesting to see what happens to F1 as a result, Indycar as well. Petrolheads can whine about electric racing all they want, but engine suppliers are losing interest in making gas engines when the consumer market is in a shift away from them. Even Ferrari will have to adapt to the times at some point.
  - csours 6y ago
    So, right now F1 has hybrid engines. Is there a power mix they can't cross before they infringe on Formula E? Or is it just literally, has to have an engine on board? Racing teams have never been shy about running right up to the edge of defined rules, and also running wild in undefined areas.
    - mlindner 6y ago
      I'd assume the dividing line is what type of motor drives the wheels directly.
      - lmm 6y ago
        Current-F1 KERS drives the wheels directly AIUI.
  - gpm 6y ago
    Could the Formula One Group just abandon the FIA or is that also forbidden by contract?
    - anticensor 6y ago
      They would lose all their financing :=
- melling 6y ago
  “ A Honda Formula E program has already been ruled out”
  - clouddrover 6y ago
    Doesn't rule out Extreme E: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMsfLJB5S9E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMsfLJB5S9E Or E1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTRAU-zRd8k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTRAU-zRd8k Or World Rallycross Projekt E: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUwRnBhtevE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUwRnBhtevE
- GuB-42 6y ago
  Formula E is entirely unlike how F1 was. The big one is that all drivers drive the same chassis and battery, and with strict regulations regarding the engine. Pilots may as well all drive the same car. They also added Mario Kart style boosts. This is a game, mostly intended to provide entertainment and show off the pilot skills. F1 was as much about constructors as it was about pilots, and in fact, being a pilot was as much about tuning and working with engineers as it was about driving. Technical advances driven by competition between constructors made the sport. To replicate that with Formula E, constructors should be able to make everything from aerodynamics to the batteries. Have regulations that allows for technical breakthroughs to happen, with the minimum amount of limitations to ensure the competition still looks like car racing and to allow pilots to get old.
  - dzhiurgis 6y ago
    > Mario Kart style boosts Yeah I'd much rather watch some sort of AI or RC game with random challenges like oil spills and bombs. Driving is boring.
  - usrusr 6y ago
    > Formula E is entirely unlike how F1 was. Well, exactly the same can be said about F1. It's certainly not the tiniest bit like how it used to be.
  - hellotomyrars 6y ago
    You should try actually watching Formula E. They have continued to open up the car each season, and there are real differences between them. The "Mario Kart" style boosts serve a functional strategic purpose that is similar to the strategic elements involved in pitting in F1. FE is the racing series driving things forward technologically now. This is why F1 can't attract new manufacturers to the series, and why FE has attracted several. There is a serious interest in EV tech now and the EV tech lives in Formula E. Also the racing is just flat out better in FE. The last 5 years of F1 have been largely a parade. This year has been more interesting to be fair, but still, the racing just isn't as good.
    - 6y ago
zebrafish 6y ago
Formula E already exists. As a PR play, other power unit manufacturers may follow Honda. Volkswagen put a lot of pressure on them with their announcement last year. However, I don’t think (and hope) that ICE racing will go anywhere. The engineering challenges and reliability challenges are part of racing that EVs remove from the equation. I don’t understand why EVs can’t have their place as personal and commercial vehicles and racing can keep ICEs in competition vehicles.
- AnthonyMouse 6y ago
  The issue is going to be that racing is where vehicle manufacturers go to push the limits of their cutting edge technology. Which they don't fundamentally create for racing but for the versions of it that trickle into production vehicles. If everyone starts expecting the decline of ICE vehicles in the market, who is going to be putting a lot of resources into continuing to improve them?
  - toyg 6y ago
    > their cutting edge technology. Which they don't fundamentally create for racing but for the versions of it that trickle into production vehicles Nah. Open-wheel racing has not been about actual research, already, for more than 20 years. The standard-bearer itself, Ferrari, was a racing team first and a manufacturer later; even today they are not in F1 for research but for marketing purposes (merchandising is basically their prime source of revenue). Open-wheel is largely a show, and it will continue to run as long as the show gets viewers, one way or the other.
- lmm 6y ago
  > I don’t understand why EVs can’t have their place as personal and commercial vehicles and racing can keep ICEs in competition vehicles. I'm sure ICE racing will continue in one form or another, but Formula 1 is enormously expensive; manufacturers justify it in terms of the prestige it brings them and the R&D work that can trickle-down into road cars. If the engine technology is completely different then both of those benefits become a lot more questionable.

With the automobile market transitioning to EV, it is inevitable that F1 will be rebooted as an EV contest. Expect Honda to re-enter then, particularly if MotoGP goes EV first.

JshWright 6y ago

So, Formula E?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
snuxoll 6y ago
Formula E also has a monopoly on FIA sanctioned all-electric single seater racing for 25 seasons, so F1 cannot go full EV until 2039 at minimum unless contracts get renegotiated. Will be interesting to see what happens to F1 as a result, Indycar as well. Petrolheads can whine about electric racing all they want, but engine suppliers are losing interest in making gas engines when the consumer market is in a shift away from them. Even Ferrari will have to adapt to the times at some point.
- csours 6y ago
  So, right now F1 has hybrid engines. Is there a power mix they can't cross before they infringe on Formula E? Or is it just literally, has to have an engine on board? Racing teams have never been shy about running right up to the edge of defined rules, and also running wild in undefined areas.
  - mlindner 6y ago
    I'd assume the dividing line is what type of motor drives the wheels directly.
    - lmm 6y ago
      Current-F1 KERS drives the wheels directly AIUI.
- gpm 6y ago
  Could the Formula One Group just abandon the FIA or is that also forbidden by contract?
  - anticensor 6y ago
    They would lose all their financing :=
melling 6y ago
“ A Honda Formula E program has already been ruled out”
- clouddrover 6y ago
  Doesn't rule out Extreme E: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMsfLJB5S9E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMsfLJB5S9E Or E1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTRAU-zRd8k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTRAU-zRd8k Or World Rallycross Projekt E: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUwRnBhtevE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUwRnBhtevE
GuB-42 6y ago
Formula E is entirely unlike how F1 was. The big one is that all drivers drive the same chassis and battery, and with strict regulations regarding the engine. Pilots may as well all drive the same car. They also added Mario Kart style boosts. This is a game, mostly intended to provide entertainment and show off the pilot skills. F1 was as much about constructors as it was about pilots, and in fact, being a pilot was as much about tuning and working with engineers as it was about driving. Technical advances driven by competition between constructors made the sport. To replicate that with Formula E, constructors should be able to make everything from aerodynamics to the batteries. Have regulations that allows for technical breakthroughs to happen, with the minimum amount of limitations to ensure the competition still looks like car racing and to allow pilots to get old.
- dzhiurgis 6y ago
  > Mario Kart style boosts Yeah I'd much rather watch some sort of AI or RC game with random challenges like oil spills and bombs. Driving is boring.
- usrusr 6y ago
  > Formula E is entirely unlike how F1 was. Well, exactly the same can be said about F1. It's certainly not the tiniest bit like how it used to be.
- hellotomyrars 6y ago
  You should try actually watching Formula E. They have continued to open up the car each season, and there are real differences between them. The "Mario Kart" style boosts serve a functional strategic purpose that is similar to the strategic elements involved in pitting in F1. FE is the racing series driving things forward technologically now. This is why F1 can't attract new manufacturers to the series, and why FE has attracted several. There is a serious interest in EV tech now and the EV tech lives in Formula E. Also the racing is just flat out better in FE. The last 5 years of F1 have been largely a parade. This year has been more interesting to be fair, but still, the racing just isn't as good.
  - 6y ago

zebrafish 6y ago

Formula E already exists. As a PR play, other power unit manufacturers may follow Honda. Volkswagen put a lot of pressure on them with their announcement last year. However, I don’t think (and hope) that ICE racing will go anywhere. The engineering challenges and reliability challenges are part of racing that EVs remove from the equation. I don’t understand why EVs can’t have their place as personal and commercial vehicles and racing can keep ICEs in competition vehicles.

AnthonyMouse 6y ago
The issue is going to be that racing is where vehicle manufacturers go to push the limits of their cutting edge technology. Which they don't fundamentally create for racing but for the versions of it that trickle into production vehicles. If everyone starts expecting the decline of ICE vehicles in the market, who is going to be putting a lot of resources into continuing to improve them?
- toyg 6y ago
  > their cutting edge technology. Which they don't fundamentally create for racing but for the versions of it that trickle into production vehicles Nah. Open-wheel racing has not been about actual research, already, for more than 20 years. The standard-bearer itself, Ferrari, was a racing team first and a manufacturer later; even today they are not in F1 for research but for marketing purposes (merchandising is basically their prime source of revenue). Open-wheel is largely a show, and it will continue to run as long as the show gets viewers, one way or the other.
lmm 6y ago
> I don’t understand why EVs can’t have their place as personal and commercial vehicles and racing can keep ICEs in competition vehicles. I'm sure ICE racing will continue in one form or another, but Formula 1 is enormously expensive; manufacturers justify it in terms of the prestige it brings them and the R&D work that can trickle-down into road cars. If the engine technology is completely different then both of those benefits become a lot more questionable.