4 ms·

I grew up in a school with a culture similar to TJ but without an admissions process. I find it sad that people are trying to get into compsci just to get ahead

I grew up in a school with a culture similar to TJ but without an admissions process. I find it sad that people are trying to get into compsci just to get ahead in their career. It's also sad that Asian parents are pressuring and coercing children and teens into high-workload test prep classes, creating a toxic environment optimizing for top colleges with stratospheric admissions criteria, at the expense of mental health. Top college admissions essays select for self-aggrandizement, and they often have stricter requirements for Asian students. I've heard that Asian (specifically Chinese) parents push for education because it was the only path out of poverty in China and after immigrating to the US, and others saying that in the US, pursuing high-income careers is necessary in the face of racial discrimination in broader society.

scudd 6y ago
Yea I have mixed feelings as well. I watched many smart and talented people develop very well through these programs. However, the inter-competitiveness at such a young age could be pretty destructive, and was largely unacknowledged and unaddressed by parents and faculty. It led to a lot of stratification in the way kids perceived their peers, and themselves. To give a related example, my elementary school was a designated Gifted and Talented school, colloquially referred to as GT. Kids across the county who tested well enough could opt to attend; however, the school also had students who attended as their default district elementary school. For every grade at 3rd grade and above, some of the classes were designated as GT, and some were designated as, well .... non-GT. How is a 3rd grader supposed to rationalize their class being categorized as non-GT? Are they, as the abbreviation states, neither gifted nor talented? The school's faculty would normally emphasize referring to non-GT classes as the "Base" classes, but I think the point remains in terms of what impact that has on a 3rd grader's psychology.
- csande17 6y ago
  I suspect this kind of attitude -- that gifted programs are problematic because they imply some students are not gifted -- is the main reason why the US falls behind many other countries in measures of education quality. Not everyone is equally good at school! Just like how not everyone is equally good at sports! We should plan around this, not drag everyone down to the lowest common denominator so we can convince ourselves it isn't true.
  - scudd 6y ago
    I don't see how programs like Thomas Jefferson High School will do much in bolstering the overall public education system. The program is ostensibly to give students with demonstrated aptitude, and an interest in STEM a dedicated environment to excel in. However, to what extent it fulfills on these goals, I would say is debatable. But as for the general quality of US public education, I would think that to whatever extent TJ succeeds at its goal, they'd be irrelevant simply by magnitude. TJ, whilst a high performing high school, is one high school among many high schools, in a county among many counties, in a state among many states. Regardless of TJ's individual performance, they're averaged out when looking at aggregated numbers. If the goal is to generally increase US education quality, I would think programs like TJ, which are by nature exclusive, won't be successful.
    - rayiner 6y ago
      The goal of TJ was to cultivate STEM graduates to help modernize what was, at the time, a fairly conventional southern state economy.
whoevercares 6y ago
Yes, The Chinese college entrance examination has been the only hope for the huge amount of people in poverty(cheat and corruption are surprisingly rare) and the brightest ones get full PHD scholarship in the US. For those people financial safety is absolutely the No.1 concern. I’d say discrimination aside, the huge hope from their family is also a strong motivation. Btw as someone who went through the preparation of the exam in China(tried 2 times actually), the last year of high school is like a living hell. My teacher was yelling at the class “it’s 6:30am already and the classroom is still not full. Do you fking want to go college?” I don’t blame her, one point difference in score turns out to be 2000+ people in the regional ranking

scudd 6y ago

Yea I have mixed feelings as well. I watched many smart and talented people develop very well through these programs. However, the inter-competitiveness at such a young age could be pretty destructive, and was largely unacknowledged and unaddressed by parents and faculty. It led to a lot of stratification in the way kids perceived their peers, and themselves. To give a related example, my elementary school was a designated Gifted and Talented school, colloquially referred to as GT. Kids across the county who tested well enough could opt to attend; however, the school also had students who attended as their default district elementary school. For every grade at 3rd grade and above, some of the classes were designated as GT, and some were designated as, well .... non-GT. How is a 3rd grader supposed to rationalize their class being categorized as non-GT? Are they, as the abbreviation states, neither gifted nor talented? The school's faculty would normally emphasize referring to non-GT classes as the "Base" classes, but I think the point remains in terms of what impact that has on a 3rd grader's psychology.

csande17 6y ago
I suspect this kind of attitude -- that gifted programs are problematic because they imply some students are not gifted -- is the main reason why the US falls behind many other countries in measures of education quality. Not everyone is equally good at school! Just like how not everyone is equally good at sports! We should plan around this, not drag everyone down to the lowest common denominator so we can convince ourselves it isn't true.
- scudd 6y ago
  I don't see how programs like Thomas Jefferson High School will do much in bolstering the overall public education system. The program is ostensibly to give students with demonstrated aptitude, and an interest in STEM a dedicated environment to excel in. However, to what extent it fulfills on these goals, I would say is debatable. But as for the general quality of US public education, I would think that to whatever extent TJ succeeds at its goal, they'd be irrelevant simply by magnitude. TJ, whilst a high performing high school, is one high school among many high schools, in a county among many counties, in a state among many states. Regardless of TJ's individual performance, they're averaged out when looking at aggregated numbers. If the goal is to generally increase US education quality, I would think programs like TJ, which are by nature exclusive, won't be successful.
  - rayiner 6y ago
    The goal of TJ was to cultivate STEM graduates to help modernize what was, at the time, a fairly conventional southern state economy.

whoevercares 6y ago

Yes, The Chinese college entrance examination has been the only hope for the huge amount of people in poverty(cheat and corruption are surprisingly rare) and the brightest ones get full PHD scholarship in the US. For those people financial safety is absolutely the No.1 concern. I’d say discrimination aside, the huge hope from their family is also a strong motivation. Btw as someone who went through the preparation of the exam in China(tried 2 times actually), the last year of high school is like a living hell. My teacher was yelling at the class “it’s 6:30am already and the classroom is still not full. Do you fking want to go college?” I don’t blame her, one point difference in score turns out to be 2000+ people in the regional ranking