3 ms·

I got a call from a friend today, who is dealing with depression. He has ready many such articles and has been microdosing on psilocybin mushrooms. He wanted my

by jp0d 6y ago

I got a call from a friend today, who is dealing with depression. He has ready many such articles and has been microdosing on psilocybin mushrooms. He wanted my help to be with him as a sober person when he goes through the experience. I had to say no. I've two simple reasons. 1. Mushrooms are illegal in Australia. I don't want him or I to be part of any illegal activity. 2. Even though he argued that the big pharma wouldn't let this happen etc, modern medicine has saved so many lives that we at least should try to understand it better. I requested him to see a psychiatrist and go through therapy. Talk to the to professional and seek natural alternatives to prescription medicine, if available. I could be wrong in my opinion. As a student of statistics, I'd love to read some study results on the effect of psilocybin before believing this.

DanBC 6y ago
I'm not a healthcare professional. Depression is an umbrella term and it covers a wide range of different things, and a wide range of severity. At its most severe depression is a fatal illness. It is safe[1] to ask people if they've considered suicide. If people have suicidal thoughts this is a medical emergency. If someone has situational depression they may need support to help fix the situation or to cope with it if it's not fixable. If someone has a depression that doesn't appear to have a cause there's a variety of things that people try. These don't work for everyone. Some of them have worse evidence bases. 1) Lifestyle changes. These include sleep hygiene (good evidence), exercise (not great evidence but there is sign of some benefit), food (not great evidence), and cutting down on alcohol (good evidence). MH professionals have a concept called "activation". As depression takes hold the person loses track of their routines and habits, and they enter a cycle of not doing anything because they're in a low mood, and being in a low mood because they don't do anything. Activation is part of treatment and it involves gradually building up your routines as treatment progresses. 2) Meds. Meds can be split into roughly 5 groups: Tricyclics (avoid if you can), MAOIs (only used for severe treatment resistant depression), SSRIs/SSNIs/NASAs/etc (reasonable evidence base, some people need to cycle through a few to find one that works, some people have unpleasant discontinuation effects), supplements (St John's Wort etc. I'd avoid these unless you're sure the product is good quality, but if you're taking something it's probably better to take real meds), and then things like ketamine which is new and so will be difficult to get for a while. (It's probably useful, it's probably not the miracle drug they claim). 3) Talking therapy. The one with the best evidence base is cognitive behaviour therapy. This is a time-limited therapy with a maximum of 21 weeks, but you can do less if you need less. It's talking about your emotions and thoughts today. It doesn't go into your past. This means it's less suitable for people with trauma in their history. When we look at effectiveness, meds are effective for about 60% of the people who try them. CBT is effective for about 60% of the people who try it (although that figure is lower because it's mostly based on the English implementation of CBT which can be only 6 weeks over the telephone instead of up to 21 weeks face to face). Talking to a professional is a good idea. Psychiatrists usually do diagnosis and medication, although some do talking therapy too. Psychologists usually do either diagnosis or formulation, and will offer a range of talking therapies, and sometimes a bit of a mix to suit. It would be good if your friend had a clear ideas about what they wanted to focus on in treatment and what their goals are, although obviously that can be tricky if their thinking is muddled. You mentioned drug use. Some people do report remarkable, life-changing, experiences after using psychedelics. But it's important to remember that a few people have bad experiences, and some people are harmed. In general (at least in the UK) people who take psychedelics have a good reputation for harm minimisation and responsible drug use, so if you can find a forum you're likely to get good advice and advice that you can check against other sources. In England this is the guidance for treatment that patients can expect: https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg90 https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg90 Hope things pick up a bit for your friend. [1] A bit more about suicide. Asking people is safe; get people to make a safety plan; get them to seek help. The Zero Suicide Alliance have a 20-30 minute free training video here: https://www.zerosuicidealliance.com/training https://www.zerosuicidealliance.com/training https://themighty.com/2020/08/study-safe-to-ask-about-suicide/ https://themighty.com/2020/08/study-safe-to-ask-about-suicid... https://www.prevent-suicide.org.uk/ https://www.prevent-suicide.org.uk/
- jp0d 6y ago
  Thank you for the comment. I don't know much about it. I actually have three friends who're going though it. One of them is seeing a psychiatrist and is coping well. The second (who called me) has been self-dosing on these natural medication. And third one has been hit the worst. He is alone and can't access proper treatment. He doesn't talk to many people due to anxiety issues. And he is outside my lockdown zone, so I can't even visit him, unfortunately. I make sure that I at least text them every once in a while to find out how they're doing. I'll read through the guide and see if I can do more to help.
jp0d 6y ago
Wow.. Already been downvoted. I think my advice wasn't wrong. Going through such experience with someone like me who doesn't understand it can be risky. Hence, I suggested to see a psychiatrist.
- weerd 6y ago
  The advice was not wrong. You probably would not have been a great sitter, and it's best to recognize that. Your comment comes off in the wrong way for a thread about muyshrooms.
  - jp0d 6y ago
    You're right that I wouldn't have been a great sitter. Primarily because I don't understand them enough. Also psychiatric help is proven and should be the first step in dealing with mental health issues. There have been studies on the use of mushrooms to help in these cases. Some of those come from prestigious unis. However, only a trained psychiatrist can help a person prepare and go through such experiences. I'm not the right person. I'd be just helping someone get high on an illegal substance. As a friend I advised him accordingly with best intentions.
    - tasuki 6y ago
      > only a trained psychiatrist can help a person prepare and go through such experiences. Source?

by jp0d 6y ago

DanBC 6y ago

I'm not a healthcare professional. Depression is an umbrella term and it covers a wide range of different things, and a wide range of severity. At its most severe depression is a fatal illness. It is safe[1] to ask people if they've considered suicide. If people have suicidal thoughts this is a medical emergency. If someone has situational depression they may need support to help fix the situation or to cope with it if it's not fixable. If someone has a depression that doesn't appear to have a cause there's a variety of things that people try. These don't work for everyone. Some of them have worse evidence bases. 1) Lifestyle changes. These include sleep hygiene (good evidence), exercise (not great evidence but there is sign of some benefit), food (not great evidence), and cutting down on alcohol (good evidence). MH professionals have a concept called "activation". As depression takes hold the person loses track of their routines and habits, and they enter a cycle of not doing anything because they're in a low mood, and being in a low mood because they don't do anything. Activation is part of treatment and it involves gradually building up your routines as treatment progresses. 2) Meds. Meds can be split into roughly 5 groups: Tricyclics (avoid if you can), MAOIs (only used for severe treatment resistant depression), SSRIs/SSNIs/NASAs/etc (reasonable evidence base, some people need to cycle through a few to find one that works, some people have unpleasant discontinuation effects), supplements (St John's Wort etc. I'd avoid these unless you're sure the product is good quality, but if you're taking something it's probably better to take real meds), and then things like ketamine which is new and so will be difficult to get for a while. (It's probably useful, it's probably not the miracle drug they claim). 3) Talking therapy. The one with the best evidence base is cognitive behaviour therapy. This is a time-limited therapy with a maximum of 21 weeks, but you can do less if you need less. It's talking about your emotions and thoughts today. It doesn't go into your past. This means it's less suitable for people with trauma in their history. When we look at effectiveness, meds are effective for about 60% of the people who try them. CBT is effective for about 60% of the people who try it (although that figure is lower because it's mostly based on the English implementation of CBT which can be only 6 weeks over the telephone instead of up to 21 weeks face to face). Talking to a professional is a good idea. Psychiatrists usually do diagnosis and medication, although some do talking therapy too. Psychologists usually do either diagnosis or formulation, and will offer a range of talking therapies, and sometimes a bit of a mix to suit. It would be good if your friend had a clear ideas about what they wanted to focus on in treatment and what their goals are, although obviously that can be tricky if their thinking is muddled. You mentioned drug use. Some people do report remarkable, life-changing, experiences after using psychedelics. But it's important to remember that a few people have bad experiences, and some people are harmed. In general (at least in the UK) people who take psychedelics have a good reputation for harm minimisation and responsible drug use, so if you can find a forum you're likely to get good advice and advice that you can check against other sources. In England this is the guidance for treatment that patients can expect: https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg90 https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg90 Hope things pick up a bit for your friend. [1] A bit more about suicide. Asking people is safe; get people to make a safety plan; get them to seek help. The Zero Suicide Alliance have a 20-30 minute free training video here: https://www.zerosuicidealliance.com/training https://www.zerosuicidealliance.com/training https://themighty.com/2020/08/study-safe-to-ask-about-suicide/ https://themighty.com/2020/08/study-safe-to-ask-about-suicid... https://www.prevent-suicide.org.uk/ https://www.prevent-suicide.org.uk/

jp0d 6y ago
Thank you for the comment. I don't know much about it. I actually have three friends who're going though it. One of them is seeing a psychiatrist and is coping well. The second (who called me) has been self-dosing on these natural medication. And third one has been hit the worst. He is alone and can't access proper treatment. He doesn't talk to many people due to anxiety issues. And he is outside my lockdown zone, so I can't even visit him, unfortunately. I make sure that I at least text them every once in a while to find out how they're doing. I'll read through the guide and see if I can do more to help.

jp0d 6y ago

Wow.. Already been downvoted. I think my advice wasn't wrong. Going through such experience with someone like me who doesn't understand it can be risky. Hence, I suggested to see a psychiatrist.

weerd 6y ago
The advice was not wrong. You probably would not have been a great sitter, and it's best to recognize that. Your comment comes off in the wrong way for a thread about muyshrooms.
- jp0d 6y ago
  You're right that I wouldn't have been a great sitter. Primarily because I don't understand them enough. Also psychiatric help is proven and should be the first step in dealing with mental health issues. There have been studies on the use of mushrooms to help in these cases. Some of those come from prestigious unis. However, only a trained psychiatrist can help a person prepare and go through such experiences. I'm not the right person. I'd be just helping someone get high on an illegal substance. As a friend I advised him accordingly with best intentions.
  - tasuki 6y ago
    > only a trained psychiatrist can help a person prepare and go through such experiences. Source?