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Bison and wolf populations are reviving in parts of Europe
- chovy 6y agoread that as "largest breasts"
- TheRealPomax 6y agoGiven the title, I thought this was about reintroducing Aurochs through some amazing feat of modern science... It is not, it's about wolves and wisents (european bison). Still worthwhile, but not as cool as the title pretends it'll be.
- oflannabhra 6y agoPretty interesting story about Aurochs: apparently two brothers in Germany both ran programs to "back breed" the Auroch in the 1920s. One brother, Lutz Heck, eventually became a Nazi and his program became an official Nazi program. After an attempt to reintroduce some animals into German forests, he and Hermann Goering eventually went on a hunting expedition together for them. Heinz Heck, the other brother was imprisoned at Dachau. The result of his program is the current breed of cattle known as "Heck cattle"[0]. He was also responsible for the reintroduction of European Bison into the wild. There are several other programs [1] that are attempting to reintroduce Aurochs, through a variety of methods. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heck_cattle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heck_cattle [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurochs#Breeding_of_aurochs-like_cattle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurochs#Breeding_of_aurochs-li...
- tuco86 6y agoDuring my apprenticeship my final exam project was to write OxPro. A breeding database for the local aurochs breeding association. edit: I had to check if it's still around. https://www.aueroxen.de/oxpro-2/ https://www.aueroxen.de/oxpro-2/
- thelastname 6y agoThose are just odd cows.
- spodek 6y agoIf interested in the Earth before humans exploded onto the scene, I recommend The Once and Future Earth by JB MacKinnon. http://www.jbmackinnon.com/books.html http://www.jbmackinnon.com/books.html I had no idea what we'd lost -- about 90%. North America had more large animals than Africa. Sailing ships in the middle of the Atlantic would grind to a halt from the density of fish. Whales as far as the eye could see all day. Beautifully written.
- jstanley 6y ago> Sailing ships in the middle of the Atlantic would grind to a halt from the density of fish. This seems absurd. How could fish survive in such conditions?
- burlesona 6y agoSorry, ships would grind to a halt? I find it very difficult to imagine the physics that would make that possible as opposed to the fish simply shifting apart, and I googled for a while and was not able to find any corroboration. Do you have some links on that?
- x87678r 6y agoI believe its probably like this quote: > and around 1600 English fishing captains still reported cod shoals "so thick by the shore that we hardly have been able to row a boat through them." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_fishing_in_Newfoundland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_fishing_in_Newfoundland
- spodek 6y agoI did a couple video essays on the book that quote that passage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLAvBiols2Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLAvBiols2Y and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4NZdciDozI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4NZdciDozI. The passage about the fish comes 45 seconds in to the first video in a NY Times quote from it, then the quote in context from the book at 5:15, though I recommend watching both videos and reading the book whole.
- interestica 6y ago
- netcan 6y agoEuropean (especially British) "rewilding" "politics" is still in pretty early stages of maturity. Some of the language in this article is kind of demonstrative of this. "* This method of conservation aims to let large areas of land return to wilderness – in other words, a state of zero human intervention.*" This is quite clearly hopelessly idealistic. Robust ecosystems that sustain macrofauna are achievable (and necessary, IMO) but "untouched" is not. That sort of idealism is not a problem, but it does set up some issues in terms of getting everyone on board. Large grazers, bears, wolves, even lynx come into conflict with humans. This is reality. That conflict can be managed and mitigated such that we coexist, but we need to develop a models and cultures that allow this. Scottish farmers don't want wolves. They're not going to come on board with a naive effort. Even lynx are a tough sell, but it's a better place to start than wolves. I'm actually optimistic though. Despite some naive gaffs (especially in the UK & Germany), there's a genuine public interest growing. Birds of prey are back. Cyanide is a cultural faux pas. We should look east and west for ideas. Eastern Europe, and obviously Russia have a continuous culture of coexisting with large and potentially dangerous animals. Americans and Canadians have had some great successes reversing exterpations. George Monbiot has been very influential, and I like his book, but he is a hard liner. He draws heavily on the Yellowstone wolf reintroduction. That's a fine example, but I think it has led to an overly idealistic perspective. A large, pristine and remote park isn't the only way and its probably unrealistic in most of western europe.
- grawprog 6y ago>This is quite clearly hopelessly idealistic. Robust ecosystems that sustain macrofauna are achievable (and necessary, IMO) but "untouched" is not. That sort of idealism is not a problem, but it does set up some issues in terms of getting everyone on board. >Large grazers, bears, wolves, even lynx come into conflict with humans. This is reality. That conflict can be managed and mitigated such that we coexist, but we need to develop a models and cultures that allow this. Scottish farmers don't want wolves. They're not going to come on board with a naive effort. Even lynx are a tough sell, but it's a better place to start than wolves >Americans and Canadians have had some great successes reversing exterpations. One of the more high profile examples in the last ten-fifteen years are the wolf populations in Yellowstone. https://www.nps.gov/yell/learn/nature/wolf-restoration.htm https://www.nps.gov/yell/learn/nature/wolf-restoration.htm One of the biggest issues they faced and maybe still do are conflicts between ranchers, farmers and hunters outside the border of the park. To the point where people would camp just outside the park with rifles and wait for any that would stray over the border. Cattle ranchers in the area were the biggest opponents to the reintroduction, they also already deal with brucellosis issues because of the bison in the park, likewise, the bison in the park have a brucellosis problem because of the cattle ranches. It took years of negotiations with landowners in the area, a lot of enforcement for poaching and constant tracking and population studies on the wolves themselves to get the success they had.
- forgotmypw17 6y agonojs here... what is this about?
- jwilk 6y agohttps://archive.today/0AYs3 https://archive.today/0AYs3
- forgotmypw17 6y agothank you
- Zenst 6y ago"The emissions from travel it took to report this story were 18kg CO2, travelling by train and car. The digital emissions from this story are an estimated 1.2g to 3.6g CO2 per page view." Kinda nice they include that, makes you think.
- everdrive 6y ago>The digital emissions from this story are an estimated 1.2g to 3.6g CO2 per page view. I want to know how many of those emissions are from superfluous javascript, ads, and tracking.
- asdff 6y agoshould be easy to calculate if you measure the full site size vs plaintext content.
- fabiospampinato 6y agoSize isn't everything. How should 100kb of PNG compare with 100kb of JS? How about 100 bytes of JS that loop endlessly? What about 10kb of text that ultimately convince you to buy solar panels, or a boat, or anything else?
- lostlogin 6y ago> What about 10kb of text that ultimately convince you to buy solar panels, or a boat, or anything else? Gobbled up by the Pihole, generating more CO2.
- pilsetnieks 6y agoSome time back there was an article posted here about those calculations, and the majority of those emissions accounted not for the serving part but for running the reader's device while they read it. I hate the javascript deluge as much as the next guy but probably the most energy is spent in keeping the screen on.
- atourgates 6y agoObviously very different conditions than Europe, but I've been following the "Bison Belong" campaign for a while, that reintroduced bison to Banff National Park in Alberta. There's a good overview from the CBC: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/bison-buffalo-spiritual-experience-1.5211445 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/bison-buffalo-spiritu... - and a series of ongoing updates from the Park Service: https://www.pc.gc.ca/en/pn-np/ab/banff/info/gestion-management/bison/blog https://www.pc.gc.ca/en/pn-np/ab/banff/info/gestion-manageme...
- globular-toast 6y agoI misread the title and you probably did too.
- lumberjack 6y agoThese environmentalists come off as quite selfish if I might say so. They take public land who belongs to all and redevelop it into their "dream" whatever it may be, and they do not care at all how it impact other people who previously used that public land or people who live nearby. I am not a big fan of these rewilding policies. There are only a few open spaces left where one could previously take a relaxing hike (in Germany). I do not want to have to worry about wolves and bears and bison when I go for a hike in these places. I really don't see how the benefits outweigh the costs.
- detaro 6y agoSorry, but if you are worried about wolves, bears and bison while hiking in Germany that's your fault for worrying about something that basically poses no risk to you.
- alistairSH 6y agoYou don't have to worry about them. We have bears over much of the US (brown bears/grizzlies in the West, black bears in the East). It's not a big deal. Keep the dog on leash in areas with bear activity. Put food in a canister overnight. That's pretty much it.
- triceratops 6y agoWe're not talking grizzlies or polar bears right? I've had many relaxing hikes, and even camped overnight, in forests with bears and elk. It's not particularly dangerous if you take proper precautions.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- jamil7 6y agoBecause humans have taken so little land for our needs? I can’t think of anything more boring and depressing than hiking in an area ‘sanitised’ of wildlife. Ironically this comment and attitude is what’s really selfish, these animals pose little threat to you. What does pose a threat to you is widespread biodiversity loss.
- oflannabhra 6y agoIf this interests you, I strongly recommend watching Seven Worlds, One Planet episode 5 [0], which features grey wolves hunting in a village in Italy at night [1], filmed with thermal cameras. It is pretty incredible. [0] - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000bqjg https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000bqjg [1] - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07v21x9 https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07v21x9
- ksec 6y agoOnly works in the UK.
- oflannabhra 6y agoI figured the HN crowd was savvy enough to VPN around that, but regardless, I highly recommend purchasing the series. It will not disappoint.
- CalRobert 6y agoA small taste of what it's like to browse US-only links from the rest of the world, perhaps? The clever reader will not find their defences impenetrable.
- bttrfl 6y agoThe article mentions the need for "habitat corridors" so wild animals can move "freely" to find new mating/hunting grounds. Apparently, Poland has relatively well developed network of corridors across the entire country: http://mapa.korytarze.pl/index_en.html http://mapa.korytarze.pl/index_en.html What about Germany?
- nicbou 6y agoThe former wall left behind such a corridor. There is an interesting 99% Invisible episode about it.
- patall 6y agoGermany have similar things though I do not know of a general nature corridor project. There are rather project specific corridors i.e for wildcat (https://www.bund.net/fileadmin/user_upload_bund/bilder/wildkatze/wildkatzen_projekt_korridore_karte.jpg https://www.bund.net/fileadmin/user_upload_bund/bilder/wildk...) or the mentioned german green belt. These are smaller than the thing you link in Poland, however at least the green belt program is an initiative for almost 100% natural reserve (i.e no agriculture or forestry at all) in that area which I believe most other corridors are not. Also, there are lots of local projects to protect old tree alleys along smaller streets etc. that serve a similar purpose. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Green_Belt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Green_Belt
- dr_orpheus 6y agoThe label on one of the images in the article says "The elk is one of the largest herbivores in Europe, besides the bison..." The image is definitely a moose, not an elk. Is this just a mistake in the article or is "elk" a more general term in Europe?
- blueflow 6y agoIt refers to the same animal.
- thursday0987 6y agoin america, moose are elks. in europe, elks are moose.
- alistairSH 6y agoI'm confused. In America... The elk is a really big deer... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elk Moose is a giant deer (bigger than elk) with a bulbous nose... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moose https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moose If Europe refers to moose as elk, what do they call elk?
- dr_orpheus 6y agoBased on the comments and the Naming and Etymology section in the Elk wikipedia. I think in Europe the term "elk" refers to both elk and moose. "European explorers in North America...thought that the larger North American animal resembled a moose, and consequently gave it the name elk, which is the common European name for moose"
- war1025 6y ago> If Europe refers to moose as elk, what do they call elk? I believe the answer is they don't have an American Elk equivalent.
- samatman 6y agoElk in the UK are referred to as red deer, though recent taxonomy has decided they are a different, albeit closely related, species. I don't know what they're called in other languages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_deer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_deer
- valdagger 6y agoI hate to be rude, misogynistic or even downright silly, but how many of you read this as "... largest breasts"?
- fitbitq 6y agoSo when will the aurochs come back? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurochs https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurochs
- andrewshadura 6y agoBelarus, which shares the bison population with Poland, is not mentioned even once in the article. Fascinating.
- celerrimus 6y agoIn Poland we had quite large population of wild animals. It's estimated that we have population of over 2.000 wolves, they need large territories so it's natural to migrate outside the borders. Hopefully they will be protected everywhere at same level. I never heard here about threat to humans (we as a nation spend a lot time in forests for mushroom and berries picking, recreation, etc) beside rumours and fake news ignited by hunters - they want to end strict wolf protection to be able to hunt for them. Wolves were always here in Poland, and now they are already on most polish territory, even near big cities. They are in forests just outside Warsaw, my friend is now hearing wolf pack 30km outside from Gdansk in northern Poland. Of course that farmers reports loses and this is some cost for the state, that is paying out for those. But this is our european heritage and we need to make everything to preserve it. Nothing to be afraid of.