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The gist of this article seems to be that it is bad that this high school changed its entrance criteria from being based on exams to GPA and that this will ruin

The gist of this article seems to be that it is bad that this high school changed its entrance criteria from being based on exams to GPA and that this will ruin the school. GPA based entrance (w/ a lottery if there are to many applications) doesn't sound terrible to me. Seems like eliminating exam bias would make this a net gain, but the author obviously disagrees.

floatingatoll 6y ago
GPA is a biased criteria in an education system where some people have disproportionate access to educational resources. The United States is one such system, with white people and affluent people having considerable advantages^ over others. The post’s author correctly observes that the resulting random lottery will accurately represent the biases that influenced the applicant pool, and therefore the outcome will be a school that reinforces societal biases rather than weakening them. The error in reasoning here is in the relative evaluation of “bias in entrance exams” versus “bias in GPAs”. The school has thrived under the former bias, and the essence of the issue is simple: Which biases are healthier for students and society? The biases of school’s exam process, or the biases of GPA? And that phrasing highlights a particularly ugly truth that most of the citizens supporting this change will do everything in their power to refuse recognizing consciously: “A system that’s biased towards my family’s skin color and/or wealth level is better for my family than any system that is not biased in my family’s favor, no matter how good it may be for society in general.” ^ For example, “test prep” biases GPAs towards students with wealth and free time, against students with evening/weekend jobs and family responsibilities.
- eikenberry 6y ago
  Personally I think that if the school is that good and popular it should expand and accept everyone who applies. Dropping kids that can't keep up back to the standard school system. Eliminating entrance bias completely.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
tupputuppu 6y ago
Can you show evidence of any bias in the testing? Could it be possible its not biased? Asians are a historically disadvantaged population who have had to ensure so much racism in USA, yet unlike blacks in recent decades they've had huge upward mobility on all social and economic indicators. So how have the supposed racist biases in tests changed to allow asians to surpass the dominant whites yet blacks and latinos continue to struggle?
- throwwy_immgrnt 6y ago
  Asians and immigrants tend to value education because it can offer a path to a higher standard of living and coming over to the US kinda self selected for the type of people with an upbringing that valued education and the willingness to take risks in unknown territory (even if it's because life in their country of origin was really bad). This is why Asians/immigrants and their children have a disproportionate occupation of seats in high caliber schools and jobs at well paying companies in the US. There's a couple problems with saying this out loud though: 1. Some people are reluctant to admit that culture may be a nontrivial part of the reason why some groups of people do better than other groups in academics. 2. People are thinking too much about race when i think immigration is a bigger factor. Children of people from African countries excel in US schools too. For those interested, you may want to look into studies relating to the 'immigrant paradox in the US' to learn more. EDIT: just to clarify something: I'm all for immigration and I wish the current administration wasn't so anti-immigrant. This country has prospered from the work of immigrants and I absolutely think non-immigrants should compete with immigrants instead of acting entitled and pretending like some immigrants took their good jobs. Just because you were born on the right soil doesn't mean you deserve a better chance at getting a job. And immigrants pay taxes too.
- eikenberry 6y ago
  A certain percentage of people just have test taking anxiety or other issues that impede their ability to test well. If you judge only on the results of a test, then you've just eliminated all those people from the start. But then our school system tends to already be biased against such people so it wouldn't really be that out of line.
strken 6y ago
It's not just moving from an exam to GPA, it's taking students above a GPA of 3.5 and entering them into a lottery. Scott seems concerned that incoming students will not be as high achieving, because they're chosen at random from a pool that's not very selective, and they won't be as interested in STEM, because the school will be using the SAT instead of their own more specific exam.
- eikenberry 6y ago
  If that's the case then I agree completely. An application is absolutely necessary, otherwise you'll get a lot of kids there who don't want to be there. I also tend to think a basic interview or some other way of determining that it is the kid that wants to be there, not the parents who want the kids there.

floatingatoll 6y ago

GPA is a biased criteria in an education system where some people have disproportionate access to educational resources. The United States is one such system, with white people and affluent people having considerable advantages^ over others. The post’s author correctly observes that the resulting random lottery will accurately represent the biases that influenced the applicant pool, and therefore the outcome will be a school that reinforces societal biases rather than weakening them. The error in reasoning here is in the relative evaluation of “bias in entrance exams” versus “bias in GPAs”. The school has thrived under the former bias, and the essence of the issue is simple: Which biases are healthier for students and society? The biases of school’s exam process, or the biases of GPA? And that phrasing highlights a particularly ugly truth that most of the citizens supporting this change will do everything in their power to refuse recognizing consciously: “A system that’s biased towards my family’s skin color and/or wealth level is better for my family than any system that is not biased in my family’s favor, no matter how good it may be for society in general.” ^ For example, “test prep” biases GPAs towards students with wealth and free time, against students with evening/weekend jobs and family responsibilities.

eikenberry 6y ago
Personally I think that if the school is that good and popular it should expand and accept everyone who applies. Dropping kids that can't keep up back to the standard school system. Eliminating entrance bias completely.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

tupputuppu 6y ago

Can you show evidence of any bias in the testing? Could it be possible its not biased? Asians are a historically disadvantaged population who have had to ensure so much racism in USA, yet unlike blacks in recent decades they've had huge upward mobility on all social and economic indicators. So how have the supposed racist biases in tests changed to allow asians to surpass the dominant whites yet blacks and latinos continue to struggle?

throwwy_immgrnt 6y ago
Asians and immigrants tend to value education because it can offer a path to a higher standard of living and coming over to the US kinda self selected for the type of people with an upbringing that valued education and the willingness to take risks in unknown territory (even if it's because life in their country of origin was really bad). This is why Asians/immigrants and their children have a disproportionate occupation of seats in high caliber schools and jobs at well paying companies in the US. There's a couple problems with saying this out loud though: 1. Some people are reluctant to admit that culture may be a nontrivial part of the reason why some groups of people do better than other groups in academics. 2. People are thinking too much about race when i think immigration is a bigger factor. Children of people from African countries excel in US schools too. For those interested, you may want to look into studies relating to the 'immigrant paradox in the US' to learn more. EDIT: just to clarify something: I'm all for immigration and I wish the current administration wasn't so anti-immigrant. This country has prospered from the work of immigrants and I absolutely think non-immigrants should compete with immigrants instead of acting entitled and pretending like some immigrants took their good jobs. Just because you were born on the right soil doesn't mean you deserve a better chance at getting a job. And immigrants pay taxes too.
eikenberry 6y ago
A certain percentage of people just have test taking anxiety or other issues that impede their ability to test well. If you judge only on the results of a test, then you've just eliminated all those people from the start. But then our school system tends to already be biased against such people so it wouldn't really be that out of line.

strken 6y ago

It's not just moving from an exam to GPA, it's taking students above a GPA of 3.5 and entering them into a lottery. Scott seems concerned that incoming students will not be as high achieving, because they're chosen at random from a pool that's not very selective, and they won't be as interested in STEM, because the school will be using the SAT instead of their own more specific exam.

eikenberry 6y ago
If that's the case then I agree completely. An application is absolutely necessary, otherwise you'll get a lot of kids there who don't want to be there. I also tend to think a basic interview or some other way of determining that it is the kid that wants to be there, not the parents who want the kids there.