5 ms·

Hey may have defended the rights of people in the rest of the world, but only American citizens have rights protected by the US constitution.

• GekkePrutser 6y ago
  Yes but some of the secrets he exposed implicated allies as well, for whom it is often just as illegal to spy on their own citizens.
  • nip180 6y ago
    I 100% agree he did. I 100% agree that this counts as a service to people in those countries. My point was that those things do nothing to add to the lore that he is an American patriot that defended American constitutional rights. The question of should he receive a pardon by a US President should should put significantly more weight in the service he did to Americans compared to the service he did to other people. I don’t mean to come off as xenophobic or nationalist. However, the title American Patriot is earned for services given to Americans and the United States itself. Patriot definition: a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.
• tshaddox 6y ago
  Is that so? Could Congress pass a law establishing an official religion for permanent residents?
  • danarmak 6y ago
    I don't know if residents have a special status. But the DOJ appears to claim that Congress could pass a law establishing religion for foreigners, demand other countries extradite all their citizens, and sentence them in the US for not following this law.
    • amanaplanacanal 6y ago
      “Congress shall make no law” seems pretty comprehensive.
      • tsimionescu 6y ago
        The problem is usually with the definition of 'people'. Slaves, for example, did not qualify for a long time. 'People' living outside the country are not generally considered to be covered (see the routine open assassination of people accused of 'terrorism').
        • tshaddox 6y ago
          If we’re following it word by word, “people” doesn’t come up in the first amendment until petition and assembly.
• mijkal 6y ago
  This assertion is counter to the core principles of the nation's founding — that one's rights are innate, and the constitution simply places limits on the government regarding what can be regulated and to what extent. That means we recognize that every person of any nationality has the right to free speech, fair and speedy trials, no torture, etc. If you mean other nations don't recognize the same rights, then I grant you that, but the constitution doesn't limit this recognition to US citizens.
  • tsimionescu 6y ago
    That's your interpretation, but the same text has been considered perfectly compatible with chattle slavery for more than a hundred years, starting immediately as it was written. So I don't think it's as clear cut as the text might make you think.
    • michaelmrose 6y ago
      If the plain text as written ought to have forbidden slavery but the people including the people that wrote it acted as if it didn't for a century their failure to act doesn't and shouldn't constrain others from interpreting the plain text different from the framers or even its author.
      • tsimionescu 6y ago
        You can also say "if the writers of the constitution considered slavery to be acceptable, the the intent was for the constitution to allow it, so we should consider that it does, current meanings of the words notwithstanding". Of course, the conclusion to draw from this is that a new constitution is needed, one that does actually, at the time of writing, explicitly intend to disallow slavery and other offenses against human rights. Why should a document that has been shown to be compatible with slavery (and anti-gay sentiment, and segregation, and extra-judicial killings, and internment camps for the japanese and so on) be considered to carry any weight?
        • 6y ago
• dragonwriter 6y ago
  > only American citizens have rights protected by the US constitution. Untrue, though this is a popular myth. There are a few Constitutional rights explicitly restricted to citizens (voting is the big one), but pretty much all the rest are rights of people generally that the government (either federal or state, depending on which Constitutional provision is involved) is restricted from intruding on. Both the plain text and the case law of the Constitution is inconsistent with this “only American citizens have rights protected by the US constitution” view. There is some case law that certain actions by the US government affecting noncitizens outside of the US are not limited by certain provisions of the Constituion that would affect actions that were either within the US or directed at citizens (or, at least, that such actions are not subject to legal process in the federal courts, which amounts to the same thing), but the particular exception is quite narrow.
  • tsimionescu 6y ago
    And yet, the following have been considered compatible with the rights of all people: slavery, torture of non-citizens, assassination of non-citizens on suspicions of a crime, assassination of citizens on external territory on suspicions of a crime.
  • nix23 6y ago
    The NSA was not allowed to spy on US citizens. >U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit said that the U.S. surveillance of phone records was indeed illegal. The U.S. surveillance
    • dragonwriter 6y ago
      > The NSA was not allowed to spy on US citizens. That's because of statutory restrictions (the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act) on surveillance of citizens adopted in the wake of the foreign intelligence apparatus being broadly used against domestic opposition, not Constitutional limits on rights to citizens. From the ruling at issue: «We conclude that the government may have violated the Fourth Amendment and did violate the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (“FISA”) when it collected the telephony metadata of millions of Americans»
• deleted 6y ago
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