6 ms·

Disagree. I think he’s a tool of Russia and got paid to tarnish America and diplomacy worldwide.

by georgeplusplus 6y ago

scrozart 6y ago
Reddit is leaking.
snypher 6y ago
>diplomacy
chrisco255 6y ago
He simply tarnished certain federal bureaucracies, not America at large.
- georgeplusplus 6y ago
  I live in Germany and When I moved here I sensed animosity for America. When I asked my local friends they said It was made a lot worse after what he leaked.
  - chrisco255 6y ago
    That may be true, but that's the fault of the 3 letter agencies and not the fault of Snowden.
ahelwer 6y ago
If the reality of what we are doing to our citizens tarnishes our reputation, then we shouldn't be doing it.
londons_explore 6y ago
Wouldn't he have flown straight to Moscow if that was his plan from the start?
- the-dude 6y ago
  The fact that he took a detour is only proof he is trying to hide his real masters. /s
pengaru 6y ago
It sounds like you're confusing Assange and Snowden.
- gjs278 6y ago
  it sounds like you’re just confused. neither one of them is a russian asset. maybe you are by intentionally spreading misinformation
- CalChris 6y ago
  Something about Snowden fleeing to Russia makes that confusion difficult to accept.
  - dijit 6y ago
    US govt did that to him. He was trying to get to Ecuador from HK when his passport was revoked mid-route. Russia gave him asylum, for reasons which are not related to him helping them, purely because it antagonises the US. He still openly criticised the Russian government, and has expressed strong desire to come back to the US.
  - tshaddox 6y ago
    Why is it confusing that he would flee to somewhere where the US couldn’t easily extradite him, throw him in a “detention center,” give him an unfair trial, or assassinate him?
  - pengaru 6y ago
    Assange and Snowden are widely known to be conflated among the general public. [0] I don't personally think either of these people are or have ever knowingly been Russian assets. But that's not the point. Particularly after the Special Counsel investigation, Assange/Wikileaks has been portrayed quite publicly through a credible federal investigation as being used as a puppet for distributing Russian-acquired documents. Snowden clearly ended up in Russia for lack of options when fleeing HK. There's never been any credible allegations of a Russian affiliation outside of that AFAIK. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEVlyP4_11M&t=8m https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEVlyP4_11M&t=8m
OkGoDoIt 6y ago
The American government tarnished itself, Snowden just revealed it to us all (at great personal sacrifice). I consider him a patriot.
- georgeplusplus 6y ago
  Again, I disagree. He exposed what basically any G20 nation does and lives pretty damn well by virtue of doing the bidding of a foreign government that seeks to undermine democracy in the world. Somehow that makes him a patriot.
  - dTal 6y ago
    The notion that he gave up his highly paid government contractor job in sunny Hawaii in favour of becoming an international fugitive, for personal gain, is clearly nonsense. You really think an apartment in Moscow is worth all that?
- seppin 6y ago
  > (at great personal sacrifice) Yes all he had to gain was international celebrity.
pydry 6y ago
"But after all, it’s the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it’s always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it’s a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them [you] they are being attacked [by Russia], and denounce the pacifists [Snowden] for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering [with additions] Nothing much changes.
gkoberger 6y ago
I agree him being in Russia currently isn't a good look... but I don't think he was a Russian asset. To me, he always seemed like a really good person who followed his conscience. I think where he messed up was he got help from Assange when he was at his neediest, took it, and ended up in Moscow.
runamok 6y ago
The fact that the secret program he leaked was ultimately determined to be unlawful says he is vindicated and should be pardoned. "A National Security Agency (NSA) surveillance program has been ruled unlawful, seven years after it was exposed by whistleblower Edward Snowden." https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-54013527 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-54013527
- lern_too_spel 6y ago
  He leaked a lot more US government programs than that one, and all of those were legal. Had he only leaked phone metadata collection, he would have a case.
  - runamok 6y ago
    It took 7 years for the courts to finally figure that out even though it seemed like ridiculous overreach to everyone. Off the top of my head I recollect they were intercepting hardware like switches and compromising it, inserting spying equipment in Google data centers forceing them to now to end to end encryption and many other shady things. Not to mention the collection of zero days that almost certainly will get discovered by other nation states and bad actors and risk our security. They used parallel construction with other law enforcement orgs as they leaked run of the mill criminal behavior (not national security related) so as to not disclose the real way they got the info. There are many more examples of overreaches he brought to light but I don't recall all of it. The core concern I have is all this apparatus are tools of fascism and control of any dissenting voices including the opposing political party. Where we are politically today I think would be hard to fathom back when Snowden leaked all this.
    - georgeplusplus 6y ago
      You make it seem like they’re just hitting Googles hardware randomly. It’s been postulated publicly that spies have been found at Google that facilitate information to the CCP. If I were a defense organization this would concern me and I believe they have legal clout to act. Liberal does not mean lawless. You expect USA to do nothing but sit back and accept it’s just a part of doing business to get spied on and IP theft?

Disagree. I think he’s a tool of Russia and got paid to tarnish America and diplomacy worldwide.

scrozart 6y ago

Reddit is leaking.

snypher 6y ago

>diplomacy

chrisco255 6y ago

He simply tarnished certain federal bureaucracies, not America at large.

georgeplusplus 6y ago
I live in Germany and When I moved here I sensed animosity for America. When I asked my local friends they said It was made a lot worse after what he leaked.
- chrisco255 6y ago
  That may be true, but that's the fault of the 3 letter agencies and not the fault of Snowden.

ahelwer 6y ago

If the reality of what we are doing to our citizens tarnishes our reputation, then we shouldn't be doing it.

londons_explore 6y ago

Wouldn't he have flown straight to Moscow if that was his plan from the start?

the-dude 6y ago
The fact that he took a detour is only proof he is trying to hide his real masters. /s

pengaru 6y ago

It sounds like you're confusing Assange and Snowden.

gjs278 6y ago
it sounds like you’re just confused. neither one of them is a russian asset. maybe you are by intentionally spreading misinformation
CalChris 6y ago
Something about Snowden fleeing to Russia makes that confusion difficult to accept.
- dijit 6y ago
  US govt did that to him. He was trying to get to Ecuador from HK when his passport was revoked mid-route. Russia gave him asylum, for reasons which are not related to him helping them, purely because it antagonises the US. He still openly criticised the Russian government, and has expressed strong desire to come back to the US.
- tshaddox 6y ago
  Why is it confusing that he would flee to somewhere where the US couldn’t easily extradite him, throw him in a “detention center,” give him an unfair trial, or assassinate him?
- pengaru 6y ago
  Assange and Snowden are widely known to be conflated among the general public. [0] I don't personally think either of these people are or have ever knowingly been Russian assets. But that's not the point. Particularly after the Special Counsel investigation, Assange/Wikileaks has been portrayed quite publicly through a credible federal investigation as being used as a puppet for distributing Russian-acquired documents. Snowden clearly ended up in Russia for lack of options when fleeing HK. There's never been any credible allegations of a Russian affiliation outside of that AFAIK. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEVlyP4_11M&t=8m https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEVlyP4_11M&t=8m

OkGoDoIt 6y ago

The American government tarnished itself, Snowden just revealed it to us all (at great personal sacrifice). I consider him a patriot.

georgeplusplus 6y ago
Again, I disagree. He exposed what basically any G20 nation does and lives pretty damn well by virtue of doing the bidding of a foreign government that seeks to undermine democracy in the world. Somehow that makes him a patriot.
- dTal 6y ago
  The notion that he gave up his highly paid government contractor job in sunny Hawaii in favour of becoming an international fugitive, for personal gain, is clearly nonsense. You really think an apartment in Moscow is worth all that?
seppin 6y ago
> (at great personal sacrifice) Yes all he had to gain was international celebrity.

pydry 6y ago

"But after all, it’s the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it’s always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it’s a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them [you] they are being attacked [by Russia], and denounce the pacifists [Snowden] for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering [with additions] Nothing much changes.

gkoberger 6y ago

I agree him being in Russia currently isn't a good look... but I don't think he was a Russian asset. To me, he always seemed like a really good person who followed his conscience. I think where he messed up was he got help from Assange when he was at his neediest, took it, and ended up in Moscow.

runamok 6y ago

The fact that the secret program he leaked was ultimately determined to be unlawful says he is vindicated and should be pardoned. "A National Security Agency (NSA) surveillance program has been ruled unlawful, seven years after it was exposed by whistleblower Edward Snowden." https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-54013527 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-54013527

lern_too_spel 6y ago
He leaked a lot more US government programs than that one, and all of those were legal. Had he only leaked phone metadata collection, he would have a case.
- runamok 6y ago
  It took 7 years for the courts to finally figure that out even though it seemed like ridiculous overreach to everyone. Off the top of my head I recollect they were intercepting hardware like switches and compromising it, inserting spying equipment in Google data centers forceing them to now to end to end encryption and many other shady things. Not to mention the collection of zero days that almost certainly will get discovered by other nation states and bad actors and risk our security. They used parallel construction with other law enforcement orgs as they leaked run of the mill criminal behavior (not national security related) so as to not disclose the real way they got the info. There are many more examples of overreaches he brought to light but I don't recall all of it. The core concern I have is all this apparatus are tools of fascism and control of any dissenting voices including the opposing political party. Where we are politically today I think would be hard to fathom back when Snowden leaked all this.
  - georgeplusplus 6y ago
    You make it seem like they’re just hitting Googles hardware randomly. It’s been postulated publicly that spies have been found at Google that facilitate information to the CCP. If I were a defense organization this would concern me and I believe they have legal clout to act. Liberal does not mean lawless. You expect USA to do nothing but sit back and accept it’s just a part of doing business to get spied on and IP theft?