4 ms·

Why is the high cost of western labor not in your list. Labor is the main cost. We need construction robots.

rightbyte 6y ago
That is not a problem if you got "high cost labor" taxpayers.
yardie 6y ago
Same projects in Western Europe are coming in significantly lower. Labor is cited as the main cost but it’s easy to hide corruption in labor costs.
- Spooky23 6y ago
  This isn’t NYC. We outsourced to places like this before Mexico and China were options.
- bnt 6y ago
  But Western Europe (EU) has the benefit of temporarily importing cheap East European (Romania, Poland etc) under skilled workers to do the heavy lifting.
  - burntoutfire 6y ago
    Aren't there like 10 million illegal immigrants in the US who serve similar function?
    - theptip 6y ago
      Presumably not for public contracts.
    - xyzzyz 6y ago
      In NYC, the labor law requires paying "prevailing wage", which NYC decided is $100k+/year. See https://comptroller.nyc.gov/services/for-the-public/nyc-wage-standards/wage-schedules/ https://comptroller.nyc.gov/services/for-the-public/nyc-wage... No wonder that all public projects are so expensive.
  - Xylakant 6y ago
    Western European Countries usually have a law in place that labor brought in for these contracts has to be paid the same wage as local labor.
DarthGhandi 6y ago
We have "construction robots" already. It's called foreign labour and no one in the West would dare suggest bringing them in for one-off large infrastructure projects regardless of how many cost-benefit-analyses you can get the smartest economists on Earth to produce, nor the willingness of the laborers to do it.
pchristensen 6y ago
It’s much more complicated than that. If you’re interested, Alon Levy of Pedestrian Observations compares transit construction costs across countries, for example why some countries like Spain and South Korea can build subways for 1/10 the cost per mile of USA construction projects. It basically comes down to “no one tried to make this cheaper”. Culture and history seem to be the primary drivers, more than labor costs, unions, corruption, environmental regulations, NIMBYs, etc.
- TwoBit 6y ago
  > no one tried to make this cheaper What do you mean by this?
  - pchristensen 6y ago
    It was never an organizational goal to reduce the cost of delivering infrastructure. Picture an overweight, out of shape person. Literally anything you do can improve health - portion size, macro balance, calorie restriction, daily exercise, intensity of exercise, change of environment, removal of food temptations, variety of exercise, cardio, weights, sports, etc. You don’t have to be a dietician or personal trainer to help this person. But if they don’t want to lose weight, they’re not going to try any of these. Much of American infrastructure provision is like that hypothetical person - the goal is never to to spend less. Political and organizational goals are to increase budget, increase headcount, deliver ribbon cutting ceremonies, avoid affecting neighborhoods with powerful constituents, hit service coverage goals, create construction and operations jobs, etc. There’s no one whose job evaluation and advancement is based on reducing costs.
- pnw_hazor 6y ago
  Many local US governments establish prevailing wage-laws that set minimum wages for construction jobs that private contractors have to abide by if they go work for the government. https://secure.lni.wa.gov/wagelookup/ApprenticeWageLookup.aspx https://secure.lni.wa.gov/wagelookup/ApprenticeWageLookup.as...
- bnralt 6y ago

That is not a problem if you got "high cost labor" taxpayers.

Same projects in Western Europe are coming in significantly lower. Labor is cited as the main cost but it’s easy to hide corruption in labor costs.

Spooky23 6y ago
This isn’t NYC. We outsourced to places like this before Mexico and China were options.
bnt 6y ago
But Western Europe (EU) has the benefit of temporarily importing cheap East European (Romania, Poland etc) under skilled workers to do the heavy lifting.
- burntoutfire 6y ago
  Aren't there like 10 million illegal immigrants in the US who serve similar function?
  - theptip 6y ago
    Presumably not for public contracts.
  - xyzzyz 6y ago
    In NYC, the labor law requires paying "prevailing wage", which NYC decided is $100k+/year. See https://comptroller.nyc.gov/services/for-the-public/nyc-wage-standards/wage-schedules/ https://comptroller.nyc.gov/services/for-the-public/nyc-wage... No wonder that all public projects are so expensive.
- Xylakant 6y ago
  Western European Countries usually have a law in place that labor brought in for these contracts has to be paid the same wage as local labor.

DarthGhandi 6y ago

We have "construction robots" already. It's called foreign labour and no one in the West would dare suggest bringing them in for one-off large infrastructure projects regardless of how many cost-benefit-analyses you can get the smartest economists on Earth to produce, nor the willingness of the laborers to do it.

pchristensen 6y ago

It’s much more complicated than that. If you’re interested, Alon Levy of Pedestrian Observations compares transit construction costs across countries, for example why some countries like Spain and South Korea can build subways for 1/10 the cost per mile of USA construction projects. It basically comes down to “no one tried to make this cheaper”. Culture and history seem to be the primary drivers, more than labor costs, unions, corruption, environmental regulations, NIMBYs, etc.

TwoBit 6y ago
> no one tried to make this cheaper What do you mean by this?
- pchristensen 6y ago
  It was never an organizational goal to reduce the cost of delivering infrastructure. Picture an overweight, out of shape person. Literally anything you do can improve health - portion size, macro balance, calorie restriction, daily exercise, intensity of exercise, change of environment, removal of food temptations, variety of exercise, cardio, weights, sports, etc. You don’t have to be a dietician or personal trainer to help this person. But if they don’t want to lose weight, they’re not going to try any of these. Much of American infrastructure provision is like that hypothetical person - the goal is never to to spend less. Political and organizational goals are to increase budget, increase headcount, deliver ribbon cutting ceremonies, avoid affecting neighborhoods with powerful constituents, hit service coverage goals, create construction and operations jobs, etc. There’s no one whose job evaluation and advancement is based on reducing costs.
pnw_hazor 6y ago
Many local US governments establish prevailing wage-laws that set minimum wages for construction jobs that private contractors have to abide by if they go work for the government. https://secure.lni.wa.gov/wagelookup/ApprenticeWageLookup.aspx https://secure.lni.wa.gov/wagelookup/ApprenticeWageLookup.as...
bnralt 6y ago