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It is a common point of view from modern Catalan nationalism that the bilingual status-quo is conducive to the minoritization of the Catalan language long term.

It is a common point of view from modern Catalan nationalism that the bilingual status-quo is conducive to the minoritization of the Catalan language long term. Bilingualism can also mean Catalan and English. On the other hand, pro-union parties [0] and organizations [1] often defend bilingualism under the opposite premise: that supposedly Catalan has an advantageous position over Spanish. [0] https://www.elmundo.es/cataluna/2019/04/25/5cc192b4fdddff712d8b464b.html https://www.elmundo.es/cataluna/2019/04/25/5cc192b4fdddff712... [1] http://convivenciacivicacatalana.blogspot.com/p/administracion-bilingue.html http://convivenciacivicacatalana.blogspot.com/p/administraci...

lottin 6y ago
If you see past the rhetoric you will find that Catalan nationalists would like Catalan to be the dominant language in Catalonia while Spanish nationalists would like Spanish to be the dominant language instead. Neither of them are really concerned about English because English is not in a position to replace either Catalan or Spanish.
- pvaldes 6y ago
  Replace "spanish nationalists" by "everybody else" and you have it. The idea that the main language of a nation, the only that everybody share and knows, should be deterred from part of the territory is surrealist.
  - JaumeGreen 6y ago
    It's bizarre that people want to eliminate the language that is historically from a region, and people in there speak it. Spain is not a single nation, its a state with several historical nationalities.
  - lottin 6y ago
    Deter who from what? I don't think you know what deter means.
    - pvaldes 6y ago
      Enlighten me, please
      - dllthomas 6y ago
        It's not the meaning so much as the choice of prepositions. When you say "deter X from Y", usually Y is the thing being reduced/prevented and X is the actor who is now less likely to Y. So the use of "[action] deterred from [region the action might occur in" was surprising and possibly incorrect. If you'd said "[...] deterred in [...]", it would have been perfectly grammatical English. It's a weird nit to pick in such harsh language, especially on a comment section that's more likely than the typical HN comment page to attract people who are not native English speakers.
        pvaldes 6y ago
        Okay. Well, X is specified in the phrase "... The main language of a nation... should be deterred..." Spanish is the main language in Spain, the only spoken by everybody, therefore can be inferred easily that X = Spanish Having this in mind, 'Y' can be inferred easily also. "the idea that Spanish should be deterred from [being used in] part of a territory is surrealist" Territory means 'Spain' in this context. Hope this helps
        lottin 6y ago
        No, it doesn't help, sorry. A language can't be deterred. Only animated objects, such as animals and people, can. Your sentence doesn't make sense.
        dllthomas 6y ago
        Actually, deter has two uses. From MW: Definition of deter transitive verb 1 : to turn aside, discourage, or prevent from acting she would not be deterred by threats 2 : inhibit painting to deter rust I have also seen "crime" and "war" given in examples of sense 2. To "deter the language", in sense 2, would be to deter speakers from using the language. You can sort of unify the two senses by treating "rust" or "war" or "crime" as willful entities - but in that case I don't see a reason you couldn't do the same for a language. Do you actually fail to understand what pvaldes was trying to communicate?

lottin 6y ago

If you see past the rhetoric you will find that Catalan nationalists would like Catalan to be the dominant language in Catalonia while Spanish nationalists would like Spanish to be the dominant language instead. Neither of them are really concerned about English because English is not in a position to replace either Catalan or Spanish.

pvaldes 6y ago
Replace "spanish nationalists" by "everybody else" and you have it. The idea that the main language of a nation, the only that everybody share and knows, should be deterred from part of the territory is surrealist.
- JaumeGreen 6y ago
  It's bizarre that people want to eliminate the language that is historically from a region, and people in there speak it. Spain is not a single nation, its a state with several historical nationalities.
- lottin 6y ago
  Deter who from what? I don't think you know what deter means.
  - pvaldes 6y ago
    Enlighten me, please
    - dllthomas 6y ago
      It's not the meaning so much as the choice of prepositions. When you say "deter X from Y", usually Y is the thing being reduced/prevented and X is the actor who is now less likely to Y. So the use of "[action] deterred from [region the action might occur in" was surprising and possibly incorrect. If you'd said "[...] deterred in [...]", it would have been perfectly grammatical English. It's a weird nit to pick in such harsh language, especially on a comment section that's more likely than the typical HN comment page to attract people who are not native English speakers.
      - pvaldes 6y ago
        Okay. Well, X is specified in the phrase "... The main language of a nation... should be deterred..." Spanish is the main language in Spain, the only spoken by everybody, therefore can be inferred easily that X = Spanish Having this in mind, 'Y' can be inferred easily also. "the idea that Spanish should be deterred from [being used in] part of a territory is surrealist" Territory means 'Spain' in this context. Hope this helps
        lottin 6y ago
        No, it doesn't help, sorry. A language can't be deterred. Only animated objects, such as animals and people, can. Your sentence doesn't make sense.
        dllthomas 6y ago
        Actually, deter has two uses. From MW: Definition of deter transitive verb 1 : to turn aside, discourage, or prevent from acting she would not be deterred by threats 2 : inhibit painting to deter rust I have also seen "crime" and "war" given in examples of sense 2. To "deter the language", in sense 2, would be to deter speakers from using the language. You can sort of unify the two senses by treating "rust" or "war" or "crime" as willful entities - but in that case I don't see a reason you couldn't do the same for a language. Do you actually fail to understand what pvaldes was trying to communicate?