4 ms·

Rails wasn't even released until 6 months after Basecamp was a out (and doing very well). It didn't really get popular until about 1-2 years later. By that time

by dhh 18y ago

Rails wasn't even released until 6 months after Basecamp was a out (and doing very well). It didn't really get popular until about 1-2 years later. By that time, Basecamp was doing incredibly well and we had released other products. As the creator of Rails, it's flattering to think that the framework had a big say in the success of 37signals, but I think it's role is generally overstated by people who happened to find us through the framework. The vast majority of our customers have no clue what Rails is and couldn't care less. It helped, surely, but so did many other things, like having a popular weblog, like writing a popular book on our approach, like speaking at conferences, etc.

davidw 18y ago
Interesting, thanks. I guess what my skepticism (which is certainly not limited to 37S - it comes natural to me about many things) revolves around is seeing a lot of things that are easier said than done, in my experience, at least. Four day work week, successful products in 10 hours a week, "just ask for money", and so on. It makes me wonder how much of that is really "repeatable", and how much is due to things like Rails. Thinking about it some, one of the other things that I'd like to know is what your barriers to entry are - the things that make it so that you can work less, limit features, etc... and still stay ahead of competitors who hire smart people themselves and are willing to work more, and perhaps invest more money. "Being popular" (whatever the source of said popularity) would certainly be one answer: that popularity gives you the possibility to have a much larger customer base than a less visible company whose products might be high quality and relatively inexpensive.
- edw519 18y ago
  It makes me wonder how much of that is really "repeatable", and how much is due to things like Rails. Probably a little of both. I hear you, davidw, and understand why one would be a little skeptical of capricious claims like that. OTOH, aren't these "out of the box thoughts" exactly what it sometimes takes to have a breakthrough. Some of my biggest breakthroughs weren't necessarily from lots of hard work, but from looking at things differently and doing much less work. I believe 37signals has earned enough "literary license" to preach a little without losing too much cred. I trust their demonstrated performance before anyone else's theory, no matter how logical it sounds.
  - davidw 18y ago
    > I trust their demonstrated performance before anyone else's theory, no matter how logical it sounds. This stuff isn't a science, but still, one example doesn't mean that something works for anyone but the example. I like their approach and what they have to say, by and large, just that I have some nagging doubts that it may only apply to them. One of the things I like about PG and YC is that he's taken his approach, and applied it to many companies, and gathered data in the process. It's still not, nor ever will be "scientific", but at least he's getting some more data points.

by dhh 18y ago

davidw 18y ago

Interesting, thanks. I guess what my skepticism (which is certainly not limited to 37S - it comes natural to me about many things) revolves around is seeing a lot of things that are easier said than done, in my experience, at least. Four day work week, successful products in 10 hours a week, "just ask for money", and so on. It makes me wonder how much of that is really "repeatable", and how much is due to things like Rails. Thinking about it some, one of the other things that I'd like to know is what your barriers to entry are - the things that make it so that you can work less, limit features, etc... and still stay ahead of competitors who hire smart people themselves and are willing to work more, and perhaps invest more money. "Being popular" (whatever the source of said popularity) would certainly be one answer: that popularity gives you the possibility to have a much larger customer base than a less visible company whose products might be high quality and relatively inexpensive.

edw519 18y ago
It makes me wonder how much of that is really "repeatable", and how much is due to things like Rails. Probably a little of both. I hear you, davidw, and understand why one would be a little skeptical of capricious claims like that. OTOH, aren't these "out of the box thoughts" exactly what it sometimes takes to have a breakthrough. Some of my biggest breakthroughs weren't necessarily from lots of hard work, but from looking at things differently and doing much less work. I believe 37signals has earned enough "literary license" to preach a little without losing too much cred. I trust their demonstrated performance before anyone else's theory, no matter how logical it sounds.
- davidw 18y ago
  > I trust their demonstrated performance before anyone else's theory, no matter how logical it sounds. This stuff isn't a science, but still, one example doesn't mean that something works for anyone but the example. I like their approach and what they have to say, by and large, just that I have some nagging doubts that it may only apply to them. One of the things I like about PG and YC is that he's taken his approach, and applied it to many companies, and gathered data in the process. It's still not, nor ever will be "scientific", but at least he's getting some more data points.