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It seems most people are arguing that the only alternative to 2 app stores is a large number of app stores. But what if the alternative is no app stores? Anyone

It seems most people are arguing that the only alternative to 2 app stores is a large number of app stores. But what if the alternative is no app stores? Anyone can install whatever software they want on their device from wherever they want it. Just like it works for desktops. The need for app stores is an artificially created need (by the marketing brilliance of Jobs).

bhaavan 6y ago
I would argue that an App Store, on mobile has helped avoid virus, and malware on phones, unlike how Windows was able to contain it. Having a trusted App Store by a company, who understands security, and has a financial backing to commit to a secure system, is beneficial all the way down.
- 542458 6y ago
  Yeah, an App Store is in no way an artificial need. There’s a reason fortnite is on the Google Play store even when they had the option of only installing through other methods. For non-savvy users it mostly solves the “evaluating installer maliciousness” problem. For all users it enhances convenience (unified method for installing and uninstalling software) and software discovery. It is not a perfect solution to any of the above problems, but IMO it’s very good.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - toast0 6y ago
    In the absence of Google Play, uninstalling software would be in the same place -> settings / apps / needless tap to see all the apps / the app / uninstall. Installing would be download the apk and open it which works today, although you generally have to set a setting somewhere. There's certainly a discovery benefit to Google Play, but anybody could build an app discovery site and make an app from that with an embedded browser, open the downloaded apks with the system intent and get the permissions prompt etc. You don't even need the special app management permission if you embrace the system tools that are already there. You would lose automatic updates without that though (but then, a lot of people in India have auto-updates off to conserve bandwidth or storage space). Google play certainly does some small curation function, but I don't know how useful that is, and you could still have Google Play services running background scans and malware blacklists.
- paxys 6y ago
  The credit for that mostly goes to the sandboxed nature of the OS itself rather than app store review.
  - colejohnson66 6y ago
    Genuine question: I don’t see how Apple could keep the sandbox system and allow any app to be installed?
    - paxys 6y ago
      The App Store is an app delivery mechanism. The same application sandboxing, API access restrictions etc. can all apply even if they allow sideloading. In fact that's already possible today through their enterprise deployment program.
- wawhal 6y ago
  > by a company who understands security and has a financial backing to commit to a secure system Not sure if this stands true for the current Indian government.
  - higerordermap 6y ago
    Pretty sure it doesn't.
- onelovetwo 6y ago
  I think you might not be aware of how many vulnerabilities iOS has had over the years and still has. Its not the security heaven you and Apple are making it out to be. https://9to5mac.com/2020/05/14/zerodium-has-too-many-ios-exploits/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/05/14/zerodium-has-too-many-ios-exp... And believe it or not a Store does not have much to do with covering your ass when it comes to malware. There is the same security check on mac regardless where the application comes from (its done at the OS level) The only thing the App Store does is verify the developer because they have to be resisted with Apple (and makes sure Apple gets that 30 cut). Mac already does that btw (you actually cant download an app from an unknown developer by default) unless you choose to in the settings.
tssva 6y ago
"Anyone can install whatever software they want on their device from wherever they want it." This is the current situation on Android. It is similar to macOS or Windows. It comes with a store but users are free to install apps from whatever source they like.
Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
>But what if the alternative is no app stores? Anyone can install whatever software they want on their device from wherever they want it There was already an open, accessible, free app store called - 'Internet Browser' upon which Internet was built. These companies undermined it in collusion with the duopolies to hoard more data from their customers and are now crying wolf.
- michaelkariv 6y ago
  Do you mean web apps? Today they are powerful, but in 2008 browsers based web apps could not have access to a lot of things native apps could, I think, so native was inevitable, hence the AppStore.
  - Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
    >not have access to a lot of things native apps could That's my point here - >in collusion with the duopolies to hoard more data from their customers
indymike 6y ago
The real problem with app stores is that selling your software direct to the user is a solved problem. In many casees the e-commerce platform you use to sell your own software is better than the app stores for the seller (and in many cases the buyer). There really isn't much value until you start bundling the developer tools and libraries. Most of those libraries are derivative or are open source. So developers are trading no real (sorry but Apple's $100 is de minimus) up front costs for a percentage fee paid by the customer at each sale. This is probably optimal for small teams and solo devs...

bhaavan 6y ago

I would argue that an App Store, on mobile has helped avoid virus, and malware on phones, unlike how Windows was able to contain it. Having a trusted App Store by a company, who understands security, and has a financial backing to commit to a secure system, is beneficial all the way down.

542458 6y ago
Yeah, an App Store is in no way an artificial need. There’s a reason fortnite is on the Google Play store even when they had the option of only installing through other methods. For non-savvy users it mostly solves the “evaluating installer maliciousness” problem. For all users it enhances convenience (unified method for installing and uninstalling software) and software discovery. It is not a perfect solution to any of the above problems, but IMO it’s very good.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- toast0 6y ago
  In the absence of Google Play, uninstalling software would be in the same place -> settings / apps / needless tap to see all the apps / the app / uninstall. Installing would be download the apk and open it which works today, although you generally have to set a setting somewhere. There's certainly a discovery benefit to Google Play, but anybody could build an app discovery site and make an app from that with an embedded browser, open the downloaded apks with the system intent and get the permissions prompt etc. You don't even need the special app management permission if you embrace the system tools that are already there. You would lose automatic updates without that though (but then, a lot of people in India have auto-updates off to conserve bandwidth or storage space). Google play certainly does some small curation function, but I don't know how useful that is, and you could still have Google Play services running background scans and malware blacklists.
paxys 6y ago
The credit for that mostly goes to the sandboxed nature of the OS itself rather than app store review.
- colejohnson66 6y ago
  Genuine question: I don’t see how Apple could keep the sandbox system and allow any app to be installed?
  - paxys 6y ago
    The App Store is an app delivery mechanism. The same application sandboxing, API access restrictions etc. can all apply even if they allow sideloading. In fact that's already possible today through their enterprise deployment program.
wawhal 6y ago
> by a company who understands security and has a financial backing to commit to a secure system Not sure if this stands true for the current Indian government.
- higerordermap 6y ago
  Pretty sure it doesn't.
onelovetwo 6y ago
I think you might not be aware of how many vulnerabilities iOS has had over the years and still has. Its not the security heaven you and Apple are making it out to be. https://9to5mac.com/2020/05/14/zerodium-has-too-many-ios-exploits/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/05/14/zerodium-has-too-many-ios-exp... And believe it or not a Store does not have much to do with covering your ass when it comes to malware. There is the same security check on mac regardless where the application comes from (its done at the OS level) The only thing the App Store does is verify the developer because they have to be resisted with Apple (and makes sure Apple gets that 30 cut). Mac already does that btw (you actually cant download an app from an unknown developer by default) unless you choose to in the settings.

tssva 6y ago

"Anyone can install whatever software they want on their device from wherever they want it." This is the current situation on Android. It is similar to macOS or Windows. It comes with a store but users are free to install apps from whatever source they like.

Abishek_Muthian 6y ago

>But what if the alternative is no app stores? Anyone can install whatever software they want on their device from wherever they want it There was already an open, accessible, free app store called - 'Internet Browser' upon which Internet was built. These companies undermined it in collusion with the duopolies to hoard more data from their customers and are now crying wolf.

michaelkariv 6y ago
Do you mean web apps? Today they are powerful, but in 2008 browsers based web apps could not have access to a lot of things native apps could, I think, so native was inevitable, hence the AppStore.
- Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
  >not have access to a lot of things native apps could That's my point here - >in collusion with the duopolies to hoard more data from their customers

indymike 6y ago

The real problem with app stores is that selling your software direct to the user is a solved problem. In many casees the e-commerce platform you use to sell your own software is better than the app stores for the seller (and in many cases the buyer). There really isn't much value until you start bundling the developer tools and libraries. Most of those libraries are derivative or are open source. So developers are trading no real (sorry but Apple's $100 is de minimus) up front costs for a percentage fee paid by the customer at each sale. This is probably optimal for small teams and solo devs...