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This is the millionth article on lunar far-side telescopes I've seen that conveniently fails to explain why you'd want to place a radio telescope on the surface
by jessriedel 6y ago
This is the millionth article on lunar far-side telescopes I've seen that conveniently fails to explain why you'd want to place a radio telescope on the surface rather than just at the Earth-Moon L2 Lagrange point (i.e., the point on the far side of the Moon that orbits with the Moon around the Earth and keeps the Moon between itself and the Earth). I'm sick of not having this obvious question answered, so I dug into it.
Like the lunar surface, a telescope at L2 keeps the Moon permanently between itself and the Earth to block incoming radio waves. For a fixed telescope size, going down into the Moon's gravity well increases costs tremendously. And, although doing construction in a vacuum is never easy, it's a lot easier when you're in zero-g and you don't need a crane! Unlike the far-side surface, L2 has exposure to sunlight for power for ~90% of the time. (You would still need a relay satellite in a different lunar orbit for communications, of course, just like the far-side surface.)
As far as I can tell from browsing the article
https://arxiv.org/abs/2009.12689 https://arxiv.org/abs/2009.12689
and the much more helpful analysis of the lunar radio environment that they cite
https://sci-hub.st/https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/pdf/10.2514/6.IAC-06-D4.1.01 https://sci-hub.st/https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/pdf/10.2514/6.IA...
the only benefits to going to to the surface is
(1) you get better shielding of the extremely low frequencies (≲ 1 kHz) which are long enough wavelength to diffract around the Earth, but don't think those are detectable unless you have a telescope that's many kilometers in size.
(2) you avoid radio signals from satellites in geostationary orbits, but these should be very small since the transmitters are pointing toward the Earth.
Indeed, the faculty member who is advising the undergraduate intern lead author says
> “The first SETI observations that are done from the lunar farside will be done from orbit, there’s no question about that,” says Andrew Siemion, the director of the Berkeley SETI Research Center and the second author on the paper. “I think eventually we absolutely want to do something on the surface because we want to build a very large aperture telescope, but even when we’re at that point I don’t think that would negate the utility of doing things from orbit as well.”
and I think he's downplaying how tremendously costly going to the surface would be for very little benefit.
EDIT: Note that the FARSIDE array on the surface they mention is much better justified, but it's not SETI, it's an array, the surface benefits from solar storm shielding, and it probably only makes sense because it piggybacks on high bandwidth connection for the NASA Lunar Gateway. More details here:
https://www.lpi.usra.edu/leag/white-papers-astronomy/FARSIDE_190710_Final.pdf https://www.lpi.usra.edu/leag/white-papers-astronomy/FARSIDE...
https://twitter.com/di_goldene_pave/status/1312391572407955457 https://twitter.com/di_goldene_pave/status/13123915724079554...
- koheripbal 6y agoThe article literally says that a satellite in orbit is likely the first step. Also, the further you are from the moon - the worse the shielding.
- jessriedel 6y agoFirst, the orbital option described in the article is not L2 but rather a low lunar orbit which spends only a small fraction of it's time in the lunar shadow. Second, in my comment I literally quote the "first step" claim and explain why it's an extreme understatement, in particular because the shielding is not worse except for undetectable wavelengths and sources not actually pointed at the telescope. It's like saying we should we should build transparent houses so we get more vitamin D but of course as a first step we should go outside or take a multivitamin.
- jvanderbot 6y agoFrom this study: https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/spacetech/niac/2020_Phase_I_Phase_II/lunar_crater_radio_telescope/ https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/spacetech/niac/2020_Phase_... The sun is cited as a significant source of noise that can be shielded by the lunar body.
- jessriedel 6y agoYes, thanks! That's mentioned in my edit (although it should just be "solar wind" rather than "solar storm") and the twitter thread I link. Note that that's only a particular (though valuable) frequency range, and that it's still unclear to me whether it's cheaper to go down to the lunar surface rather than just build a 10 times larger telescope at L2.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago> And, although doing construction in a vacuum is never easy, it's a lot easier when you're in zero-g and you don't need a crane! That's not exactly true just yet! All our construction knowhow is based on thousands of years of building things on Earth's surface, under a constant 1G force pulling everything in a single direction, as well as a landmass to brace against. Every technique we have has these conditions baked in as assumptions; we exploit them all the time, without even thinking about it. Like, e.g. if you put some mortar on a brick, and then a brick on top of that, you're relying on gravity to supply the pressure that makes the two bricks strongly bound. Meanwhile - AFAIK - we have zero experience in constructing anything in 0G, beyond assembling some large prefabs. The closest we come to microgravity construction is whatever it is that underwater welders do, but that's still not the same. With this in mind, it may be that for now, building installations on Moon's surface will be easier than constructing them in space.