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This is better described as a tragedy of the commons, not a prisoner's dilemma.

cortesoft 6y ago
It isn't really a tragedy of the commons... what resource is being overused? It is a collective action problem, which is really a type of prisoner's dilemma. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_action_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_action_problem
- rightbyte 6y ago
  It is not really a prisoners' dilemma. Who is the other prisoner?
  - thotsBgone 6y ago
    You and I are both prisoners.
  - cortesoft 6y ago
    A prisoner’s dilemma doesn’t require actual prisoners; it was the first example of this type of problem, which is why the name is used for all sorts of problems with the same characteristics; namely, that there is some optimal outcome for everyone that could be reached if everyone chose a particular decision, but their is always an individual incentive to ‘defect’ and choose the other option.
- Kinrany 6y ago
  I too usually interpret "tragedy of the commons" as "everyone does the thing even though everyone would be better of if no one did the thing"
hnracer 6y ago
You are exactly right about that, not sure where the down votes are coming from.
- cortesoft 6y ago
  They aren’t right... it isn’t a tragedy of the commons, because it doesn’t involve the overuse of a shared resource. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons A tragedy of the commons is ALSO a collective action problem, but is not the same kind as what we are seeing here.
  - hnracer 6y ago
    Yes I'm aware of that definition, and I still think it is a legitimate example of tragedy of the commons. The commons here is an abstract one: it's the lack of incentive within a society to perform a kidnapping, which is a shared benefit/resource. The family of the victim who decides to pay the ransom is taking from this commons (by decreasing the lack of incentive), making everyone worse off in expectation, in order to benefit only themselves and the specific victim they're trying to help.

It isn't really a tragedy of the commons... what resource is being overused? It is a collective action problem, which is really a type of prisoner's dilemma. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_action_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_action_problem

rightbyte 6y ago
It is not really a prisoners' dilemma. Who is the other prisoner?
- thotsBgone 6y ago
  You and I are both prisoners.
- cortesoft 6y ago
  A prisoner’s dilemma doesn’t require actual prisoners; it was the first example of this type of problem, which is why the name is used for all sorts of problems with the same characteristics; namely, that there is some optimal outcome for everyone that could be reached if everyone chose a particular decision, but their is always an individual incentive to ‘defect’ and choose the other option.
Kinrany 6y ago
I too usually interpret "tragedy of the commons" as "everyone does the thing even though everyone would be better of if no one did the thing"

hnracer 6y ago

You are exactly right about that, not sure where the down votes are coming from.

cortesoft 6y ago
They aren’t right... it isn’t a tragedy of the commons, because it doesn’t involve the overuse of a shared resource. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons A tragedy of the commons is ALSO a collective action problem, but is not the same kind as what we are seeing here.
- hnracer 6y ago
  Yes I'm aware of that definition, and I still think it is a legitimate example of tragedy of the commons. The commons here is an abstract one: it's the lack of incentive within a society to perform a kidnapping, which is a shared benefit/resource. The family of the victim who decides to pay the ransom is taking from this commons (by decreasing the lack of incentive), making everyone worse off in expectation, in order to benefit only themselves and the specific victim they're trying to help.