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If Apple's business model and hardware is predicated on security, privacy, ensuring quality, making your phone not misbehave, making things simple and reliable,

If Apple's business model and hardware is predicated on security, privacy, ensuring quality, making your phone not misbehave, making things simple and reliable, why should they be forced to open that up to others who will not operate as they want?

mulmen 6y ago
If those were the only factors they shouldn't be forced to open it up. But there are other factors. Such as consumer choice, pricing and competition. You also seem to assume vertical integration is the only way to provide a stable, secure and private computing platform. That is not obvious to me and I don't believe regulators could (or should!) arrive at such a conclusion. The question for regulators is simply if the market is operating with sufficient competition. Apple for example is not completely vertically integrated. They buy glass from someone else, and screens. I don't think they mine aluminum. Clearly it is possible to deliver their product by working with other companies they do not own. This means it may be possible for them to deliver a product with similar capabilities even after spinning off the app store as "apple apps co" which provides apps for "apple device co" but they may occasionally also make apps for "Samsung Device Co". This is further reinforced by the fact that the vast majority of apps on Apple's (and Google's) platform are not written by Apple. Kinda like how Boeing and Airbus both buy engines from Rolls Royce and Pratt & Whitney (which used to be part of the same company as Boeing). Or even like how Apple buys processors from Intel but also used to buy IBM processors.
happymellon 6y ago
If you really believe that, then there is no reason for you to install any alternative store.
jariel 6y ago
Because a) the anti-trust issues mentioned and b) it's simply not true that security issue requires that degree of control: Android is open and it's fine. As far as privacy, experience etc. - that should be a competitive advantage offer for the App Store. If consumers are willing to pay 30% more for guarantees of security, privacy, experience, then that's fine. Imagine if MS and Apple today banned all Desktop apps out of their own stores or took a 30% cut. We would immediately rethink the issue.
- supernova87a 6y ago
  Not a great argument. Because they would not be doing that on our existing computers -- they would be offering new computers that you could choose to buy with that "feature" or not. And you're perfectly free to buy a different computer, use open source, any number of alternatives where no cut is taken. With phones, this was the model from nearly the beginning, and everyone opts in, or chooses not to.
  - nikitaga 6y ago
    > With phones, this was the model from nearly the beginning, and everyone opts in, or chooses not to. If "it was bad from the start so that makes it ok" was a great argument, nothing would ever improve. A lot of industries were bad from the start and were regulated into much better versions. Everything from food to air travel to financial services was made into better markets for consumers through regulation. Mobile computing is just as essential today as those other industries and needs a similar shakeup.

mulmen 6y ago

If those were the only factors they shouldn't be forced to open it up. But there are other factors. Such as consumer choice, pricing and competition. You also seem to assume vertical integration is the only way to provide a stable, secure and private computing platform. That is not obvious to me and I don't believe regulators could (or should!) arrive at such a conclusion. The question for regulators is simply if the market is operating with sufficient competition. Apple for example is not completely vertically integrated. They buy glass from someone else, and screens. I don't think they mine aluminum. Clearly it is possible to deliver their product by working with other companies they do not own. This means it may be possible for them to deliver a product with similar capabilities even after spinning off the app store as "apple apps co" which provides apps for "apple device co" but they may occasionally also make apps for "Samsung Device Co". This is further reinforced by the fact that the vast majority of apps on Apple's (and Google's) platform are not written by Apple. Kinda like how Boeing and Airbus both buy engines from Rolls Royce and Pratt & Whitney (which used to be part of the same company as Boeing). Or even like how Apple buys processors from Intel but also used to buy IBM processors.

happymellon 6y ago

If you really believe that, then there is no reason for you to install any alternative store.

jariel 6y ago

Because a) the anti-trust issues mentioned and b) it's simply not true that security issue requires that degree of control: Android is open and it's fine. As far as privacy, experience etc. - that should be a competitive advantage offer for the App Store. If consumers are willing to pay 30% more for guarantees of security, privacy, experience, then that's fine. Imagine if MS and Apple today banned all Desktop apps out of their own stores or took a 30% cut. We would immediately rethink the issue.

supernova87a 6y ago
Not a great argument. Because they would not be doing that on our existing computers -- they would be offering new computers that you could choose to buy with that "feature" or not. And you're perfectly free to buy a different computer, use open source, any number of alternatives where no cut is taken. With phones, this was the model from nearly the beginning, and everyone opts in, or chooses not to.
- nikitaga 6y ago
  > With phones, this was the model from nearly the beginning, and everyone opts in, or chooses not to. If "it was bad from the start so that makes it ok" was a great argument, nothing would ever improve. A lot of industries were bad from the start and were regulated into much better versions. Everything from food to air travel to financial services was made into better markets for consumers through regulation. Mobile computing is just as essential today as those other industries and needs a similar shakeup.