10 ms·

Raycasting engine in Factorio 1.0 (unmodded) [video]

339 points by bufferoverflow 6y ago

ladberg 6y ago
As someone who doesn't play Factorio, what basic building blocks is this made from? Are there programmable objects or is it built from logic gates? To make a Minecraft analogy that more people might understand, is it closer to redstone or command blocks?
- kmill 6y ago
  It's closer to redstone, but it's a more complicated system. It's like ladder logic in industrial control but with a couple hundred integer-valued registers per circuit network that the "combinators" update every game tick. The combinators include arithmetic and boolean operations, and you can set them to be performed on two or all of the registers. It was fun figuring out how to make an automated system that feeds nuclear reactors with fuel to supply my base with just the right amount of steam for the generators, signaling an alarm in case of over utilization.
- mastax 6y ago
  They're like individual logic/arithmetic gates: https://wiki.factorio.com/Arithmetic_combinator https://wiki.factorio.com/Arithmetic_combinator So something in-between.
- wolfram74 6y ago
  I've not played around with command blocks, but it's a bit more than redstone components. When Factorio items are wired together with signal cable they have a few different operating modes. You can specify what objects are requested from a delivery network and what items are taken from a chest, or if any are to be taken at all. So this solution involved chests being filled with various items that have a specific color on belts, and then staggering pulls from the chests to place on belts in such a manner as to make pixels. Those commands were issued by combinations of the constant signal block, the comparison/decider block, and the arithmetic block. I would say those entities are between NAND gates and pre fabricated if/else or for loop constructs.
- galuvian 6y ago
  Factorio only has very basic gates. slightly more advanced than plain redstone, but not anything close to command blocks. There are three types of combinators: arithmetic, decider, and constant. Signals have a channel name (one for each item type and a few dozen other options) and an integer value. Arithmetic combinators can perform arithmetic operations on one or all signals with one signal and a constant integer, or two signals. Decider combinators perform comparison operations. Constant combinators emit constant signals on a given channel. There are also abilities to detect state on some other items and cause behavior to change, the equivalent of observers, dispensers, pistons, etc. https://wiki.factorio.com/Circuit_network#Logic_signals https://wiki.factorio.com/Circuit_network#Logic_signals
  - ehsankia 6y ago
    What about higher level manipulation. Are these made by hand? What does the tooling look like? Can you modify the "maps" using editors, or code? I remember even early on there were Python libraries for manipulating Minecraft chunks.
    - narrationbox 6y ago
      There are sophisticated keybinding-friendly editors built-in. It is very different from vanilla Minecraft.
    - tlarkworthy 6y ago
      You can create blueprints and have robots do the placement. It's aggressively anti micro, and scalable
    - input_sh 6y ago
      You usually have items in an inventory. If you have what's needed, you can craft plenty of things by hand (but not complicated things like engines or anything to do with oil or uranium). Otherwise, you build belts to assembly machines, they take things from the belt, and make whatever you tell them. Mid to late game you also get construction and logistics bots. The former allows you to copy/paste groups of machines (bots will make them), and the latter of which just makes sure you have things that you need in your inventory. Bots speed the game up quite a bit.
akeck 6y ago
That's insane. When he zoomed in to machine level and then out to show different functional units, I felt like I was looking at "the real world" from The Matrix.
- afro88 6y ago
  Reminded me of the alien computer from the 3 body problem
  - nielsole 6y ago
    In the three body problem, a computer is created out of 30 million uneducated soldiers that stand in a 6x6km square communicating mostly through flags. 3 soldiers form AND or OR gates. A memory bus is run by cavalry. I am only half way through the book, so this might not be THE alien computer from the book, but still fitting.
hombre_fatal 6y ago
Cute track from the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5lRcjC3bY4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5lRcjC3bY4
AbraKdabra 6y ago
If you don't play Factorio, let me tell you this is absolutely freaking nuts. Even the 16-bit ALU in Minecraft from 10 years ago seems like child's play compared to this.
- faitswulff 6y ago
  I only watched the trailer, but don't your structures get attacked randomly during the game? Curious how they were able to build so much if there were random attacks.
  - TillE 6y ago
    You can turn enemies off entirely, set them to not expand their bases (so you only have to clear them out once), or simply build adequate defenses. With this kind of weird experiment, you'd just go for the first option.
  - carry_bit 6y ago
    It's possible to play with enemies disabled, or in peaceful mode.
  - adwn 6y ago
    You can turn off alien attacks when you start a new game.
  - friendlybus 6y ago
    The game is a sandbox and presents a menu where you can change a lot of parameters for your next game. You can turn off aliens, or make them peaceful and change their spawn rate. There is also a creative mode in console with unlimited everything.
  - elihu 6y ago
    They're probably playing with a "peaceful" map. It's quite possible to turn all of that off without a game mod. I think there are also some infinite resource modes as well for just trying things out and making schematics and so on. (So far I've just played some of the tutorials and the standard game scenario with minor settings tweaks.)
personjerry 6y ago
I can't wait to play Doom in Factorio
petargyurov 6y ago
If this isn't proof that our world is just part of some teenage alien's half-working science project then I don't know what is.
- szczesniewski 6y ago
  This comment and it's position got me thinking that technology and teology are finally converging. Maybe majority of people believing in higher power are right?
Papirola 6y ago
so Factorio is a Turing machine?
- WJW 6y ago
  Well it lacks the infinite size tape so technically it's not a "real" Turing machine. It has the basic boolean operators though, so you can compute anything you want as long as your computer has enough RAM.
  - PixyMisa 6y ago
    Yes, not a Turing machine, but Turing-complete.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
maCDzP 6y ago
This is crazy. Is this a virtual machine within Factorio? Made me thinking. Would it be possible to build a computer within Factorio and to then break out of it?

As someone who doesn't play Factorio, what basic building blocks is this made from? Are there programmable objects or is it built from logic gates? To make a Minecraft analogy that more people might understand, is it closer to redstone or command blocks?

kmill 6y ago
It's closer to redstone, but it's a more complicated system. It's like ladder logic in industrial control but with a couple hundred integer-valued registers per circuit network that the "combinators" update every game tick. The combinators include arithmetic and boolean operations, and you can set them to be performed on two or all of the registers. It was fun figuring out how to make an automated system that feeds nuclear reactors with fuel to supply my base with just the right amount of steam for the generators, signaling an alarm in case of over utilization.
mastax 6y ago
They're like individual logic/arithmetic gates: https://wiki.factorio.com/Arithmetic_combinator https://wiki.factorio.com/Arithmetic_combinator So something in-between.
wolfram74 6y ago
I've not played around with command blocks, but it's a bit more than redstone components. When Factorio items are wired together with signal cable they have a few different operating modes. You can specify what objects are requested from a delivery network and what items are taken from a chest, or if any are to be taken at all. So this solution involved chests being filled with various items that have a specific color on belts, and then staggering pulls from the chests to place on belts in such a manner as to make pixels. Those commands were issued by combinations of the constant signal block, the comparison/decider block, and the arithmetic block. I would say those entities are between NAND gates and pre fabricated if/else or for loop constructs.
galuvian 6y ago
Factorio only has very basic gates. slightly more advanced than plain redstone, but not anything close to command blocks. There are three types of combinators: arithmetic, decider, and constant. Signals have a channel name (one for each item type and a few dozen other options) and an integer value. Arithmetic combinators can perform arithmetic operations on one or all signals with one signal and a constant integer, or two signals. Decider combinators perform comparison operations. Constant combinators emit constant signals on a given channel. There are also abilities to detect state on some other items and cause behavior to change, the equivalent of observers, dispensers, pistons, etc. https://wiki.factorio.com/Circuit_network#Logic_signals https://wiki.factorio.com/Circuit_network#Logic_signals
- ehsankia 6y ago
  What about higher level manipulation. Are these made by hand? What does the tooling look like? Can you modify the "maps" using editors, or code? I remember even early on there were Python libraries for manipulating Minecraft chunks.
  - narrationbox 6y ago
    There are sophisticated keybinding-friendly editors built-in. It is very different from vanilla Minecraft.
  - tlarkworthy 6y ago
    You can create blueprints and have robots do the placement. It's aggressively anti micro, and scalable
  - input_sh 6y ago
    You usually have items in an inventory. If you have what's needed, you can craft plenty of things by hand (but not complicated things like engines or anything to do with oil or uranium). Otherwise, you build belts to assembly machines, they take things from the belt, and make whatever you tell them. Mid to late game you also get construction and logistics bots. The former allows you to copy/paste groups of machines (bots will make them), and the latter of which just makes sure you have things that you need in your inventory. Bots speed the game up quite a bit.

akeck 6y ago

That's insane. When he zoomed in to machine level and then out to show different functional units, I felt like I was looking at "the real world" from The Matrix.

afro88 6y ago
Reminded me of the alien computer from the 3 body problem
- nielsole 6y ago
  In the three body problem, a computer is created out of 30 million uneducated soldiers that stand in a 6x6km square communicating mostly through flags. 3 soldiers form AND or OR gates. A memory bus is run by cavalry. I am only half way through the book, so this might not be THE alien computer from the book, but still fitting.

hombre_fatal 6y ago

Cute track from the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5lRcjC3bY4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5lRcjC3bY4

AbraKdabra 6y ago

If you don't play Factorio, let me tell you this is absolutely freaking nuts. Even the 16-bit ALU in Minecraft from 10 years ago seems like child's play compared to this.

faitswulff 6y ago
I only watched the trailer, but don't your structures get attacked randomly during the game? Curious how they were able to build so much if there were random attacks.
- TillE 6y ago
  You can turn enemies off entirely, set them to not expand their bases (so you only have to clear them out once), or simply build adequate defenses. With this kind of weird experiment, you'd just go for the first option.
- carry_bit 6y ago
  It's possible to play with enemies disabled, or in peaceful mode.
- adwn 6y ago
  You can turn off alien attacks when you start a new game.
- friendlybus 6y ago
  The game is a sandbox and presents a menu where you can change a lot of parameters for your next game. You can turn off aliens, or make them peaceful and change their spawn rate. There is also a creative mode in console with unlimited everything.
- elihu 6y ago
  They're probably playing with a "peaceful" map. It's quite possible to turn all of that off without a game mod. I think there are also some infinite resource modes as well for just trying things out and making schematics and so on. (So far I've just played some of the tutorials and the standard game scenario with minor settings tweaks.)

personjerry 6y ago

I can't wait to play Doom in Factorio

petargyurov 6y ago

If this isn't proof that our world is just part of some teenage alien's half-working science project then I don't know what is.

szczesniewski 6y ago
This comment and it's position got me thinking that technology and teology are finally converging. Maybe majority of people believing in higher power are right?

Papirola 6y ago

so Factorio is a Turing machine?

WJW 6y ago
Well it lacks the infinite size tape so technically it's not a "real" Turing machine. It has the basic boolean operators though, so you can compute anything you want as long as your computer has enough RAM.
- PixyMisa 6y ago
  Yes, not a Turing machine, but Turing-complete.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

maCDzP 6y ago

This is crazy. Is this a virtual machine within Factorio? Made me thinking. Would it be possible to build a computer within Factorio and to then break out of it?