6 ms·

Again. We're failing to address the "so what?" What does this scenario represent that is _the actual problem_ of the matter?

NewOrderNow 6y ago
This comment seems to be the antithesis of what this community is trying to accomplish, which is asking the what
saagarjha 6y ago
It's just not sustainable if everyone did this. The economy needs people who are gainfully employed and not single and living with their parents. I say this as someone who is single and currently living with my parents.
- chc 6y ago
  That is actually not a problem. It's not sustainable if everyone is a full-time chef — that doesn't mean being a full-time chef is bad. The problem here is that these people are in a disadvantaged and unsatisfying position in society with no clear way out.
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  The problem then is an economy which simultaneously denies opportunity to those in need of it and needs their contribution. Such a society would be pathologically deranged.
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  >The economy needs I don't really care what the economy needs, I'm far more interested in what people need.
hmmokidk 6y ago
People feeling left out, alienated and powerless. According to me... at least.
burntoutfire 6y ago
When the parents die, the dependant, now in their middle age, will be left with no income and no life skills.
function_seven 6y ago
I suppose if you polled people in this situation, and just asked them, "Is this the life you want to live?", that would answer the your question. I don't know what the results would be, but I can guess that a large percentage of unemployed 30- and 40-somethings living with their parents would very much rather not be. Is it 10%, 35%, 65%? I'm guessing over 50% to be sure. You can argue that the society is set up wrong. But there it is, with this large cohort of people isolated and shut in. In an economy that still relies on a younger population to take care of its elders. Robots might one day deal with all productive work, but we're nowhere near that yet.
- benrbray 6y ago
  Playing devil's advocate, how many Americans would truthfully respond "yes" to the same question, "Is this the life you want to live?".
  - function_seven 6y ago
    That's a really good point. I guess I should have sharpened the question a bit: "Would you prefer to have a job and family of your own?" And, to those who have those things: "Would you prefer to be single and live with your parents?" I suspect the answers to #1 would be mostly "yes", and the answers to #2 mostly "no".
- maerF0x0 6y ago
  > "Is this the life you want to live?" This is the wrong question. The real question is do you daily want to do the things it takes to have those things. So often a goal is made, but the person doesn't want to be the thing that makes them get the goal. Eg: Run a marathon, but they loath the daily training and food discipline eg2: Speak a language, but they dont want to do the practice or be vulnerable speaking to another person. Jame clear says you have to want to daily be the person that ends up achieving <x>
tasogare 6y ago
I agreed with you about the fact living at parents’ home is not that much of an issue if we compare it to previous history, however staying there without spouse is indeed a very different matter than having a three generations family (even 4 for some people I know) under the same roof. New enough babies is a big issue here. Actually, I know two people in this situation and I feel a bit bad for them: it’s hard to find a job and hard to find a partner and even when they have one living together and supporting children would be difficult money wise.
alxlaz 6y ago
> What does this scenario represent that is _the actual problem_ of the matter? Among others: - Crippling depression for many of those who are jobless and living with their parents in a culture that is not exactly friendly to them. - An increased incidence of health issues that are correlated with depression and loneliness. - Decreased quality of life for elderly parents who need to support their children within the confines of a difficult, stressful job market and a pension system that sees increasing pressure from an aging population. - An aging working population that has difficulties filling positions around a particular range of experience, which -- in turn -- can make it harder to sustain the social programs required to help people cope. - Increased pressure on social spending in the long term, since people who are struggling to find jobs in their fourties are unlikely to be in a super well-paid position by the time they're sixty. It's not like these people are basking in a Russell-esque life of idyllic idleness, like they're taking a perpetual sabbatical year. Many of them don't want to be in the position they're in.
- maerF0x0 6y ago
  > Crippling depression I wonder how much of this is due to societal pressure vs actualization ? If the world's message is "you should feel bad because X" it seems unlikely to me that people would feel good about X. Having a job is a second order attempt to solve many of these things rather than solving the root issues. A job is a technology for solving an issue, I think it's time for a better technology.
  - kiba 6y ago
    The problem isn't job or jobless, it's the lack of social validation and self actualization. People don't want to stay home and play video games all day. They want to be able to create, or master some sort of skills.
    - maerF0x0 6y ago
      > People don't want to stay home and play video games all day. I totally get the sentiment and I agree. I knew a girl once who really wanted to be a teacher. She had a hard time finding a job as a teacher though. I was discussing this situation with her and asked "What is it you want to do?" and she was like "Get a job as a teacher?" and so I probed further, "So you just want to get the job with title teacher, regardless of the duties?" And she was like "I dont care about the job and the title, I want to teach kids and see them grow" . To which i pondered with her, "so go volunteer as a tutor?" . Yes, she did want to earn an income, but her real goal and actualization was by doing the thing... She was able to do some tutoring in the meantime and it really really improved her outlook and was a great outcome for the kids too! So often the things we want to do only have the barriers we've constructed/adopted.

NewOrderNow 6y ago

This comment seems to be the antithesis of what this community is trying to accomplish, which is asking the what

saagarjha 6y ago

It's just not sustainable if everyone did this. The economy needs people who are gainfully employed and not single and living with their parents. I say this as someone who is single and currently living with my parents.

chc 6y ago
That is actually not a problem. It's not sustainable if everyone is a full-time chef — that doesn't mean being a full-time chef is bad. The problem here is that these people are in a disadvantaged and unsatisfying position in society with no clear way out.
dredmorbius 6y ago
The problem then is an economy which simultaneously denies opportunity to those in need of it and needs their contribution. Such a society would be pathologically deranged.
tonyedgecombe 6y ago
>The economy needs I don't really care what the economy needs, I'm far more interested in what people need.

hmmokidk 6y ago

People feeling left out, alienated and powerless. According to me... at least.

burntoutfire 6y ago

When the parents die, the dependant, now in their middle age, will be left with no income and no life skills.

function_seven 6y ago

I suppose if you polled people in this situation, and just asked them, "Is this the life you want to live?", that would answer the your question. I don't know what the results would be, but I can guess that a large percentage of unemployed 30- and 40-somethings living with their parents would very much rather not be. Is it 10%, 35%, 65%? I'm guessing over 50% to be sure. You can argue that the society is set up wrong. But there it is, with this large cohort of people isolated and shut in. In an economy that still relies on a younger population to take care of its elders. Robots might one day deal with all productive work, but we're nowhere near that yet.

benrbray 6y ago
Playing devil's advocate, how many Americans would truthfully respond "yes" to the same question, "Is this the life you want to live?".
- function_seven 6y ago
  That's a really good point. I guess I should have sharpened the question a bit: "Would you prefer to have a job and family of your own?" And, to those who have those things: "Would you prefer to be single and live with your parents?" I suspect the answers to #1 would be mostly "yes", and the answers to #2 mostly "no".
maerF0x0 6y ago
> "Is this the life you want to live?" This is the wrong question. The real question is do you daily want to do the things it takes to have those things. So often a goal is made, but the person doesn't want to be the thing that makes them get the goal. Eg: Run a marathon, but they loath the daily training and food discipline eg2: Speak a language, but they dont want to do the practice or be vulnerable speaking to another person. Jame clear says you have to want to daily be the person that ends up achieving <x>

tasogare 6y ago

I agreed with you about the fact living at parents’ home is not that much of an issue if we compare it to previous history, however staying there without spouse is indeed a very different matter than having a three generations family (even 4 for some people I know) under the same roof. New enough babies is a big issue here. Actually, I know two people in this situation and I feel a bit bad for them: it’s hard to find a job and hard to find a partner and even when they have one living together and supporting children would be difficult money wise.

alxlaz 6y ago

> What does this scenario represent that is _the actual problem_ of the matter? Among others: - Crippling depression for many of those who are jobless and living with their parents in a culture that is not exactly friendly to them. - An increased incidence of health issues that are correlated with depression and loneliness. - Decreased quality of life for elderly parents who need to support their children within the confines of a difficult, stressful job market and a pension system that sees increasing pressure from an aging population. - An aging working population that has difficulties filling positions around a particular range of experience, which -- in turn -- can make it harder to sustain the social programs required to help people cope. - Increased pressure on social spending in the long term, since people who are struggling to find jobs in their fourties are unlikely to be in a super well-paid position by the time they're sixty. It's not like these people are basking in a Russell-esque life of idyllic idleness, like they're taking a perpetual sabbatical year. Many of them don't want to be in the position they're in.

maerF0x0 6y ago
> Crippling depression I wonder how much of this is due to societal pressure vs actualization ? If the world's message is "you should feel bad because X" it seems unlikely to me that people would feel good about X. Having a job is a second order attempt to solve many of these things rather than solving the root issues. A job is a technology for solving an issue, I think it's time for a better technology.
- kiba 6y ago
  The problem isn't job or jobless, it's the lack of social validation and self actualization. People don't want to stay home and play video games all day. They want to be able to create, or master some sort of skills.
  - maerF0x0 6y ago
    > People don't want to stay home and play video games all day. I totally get the sentiment and I agree. I knew a girl once who really wanted to be a teacher. She had a hard time finding a job as a teacher though. I was discussing this situation with her and asked "What is it you want to do?" and she was like "Get a job as a teacher?" and so I probed further, "So you just want to get the job with title teacher, regardless of the duties?" And she was like "I dont care about the job and the title, I want to teach kids and see them grow" . To which i pondered with her, "so go volunteer as a tutor?" . Yes, she did want to earn an income, but her real goal and actualization was by doing the thing... She was able to do some tutoring in the meantime and it really really improved her outlook and was a great outcome for the kids too! So often the things we want to do only have the barriers we've constructed/adopted.