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So do you stand by your claim that PHP's "Speed & Scalability" is "maybe the best among script-based languages"? Because in the benchmark I cited it gets spanke

by compay 15y ago

So do you stand by your claim that PHP's "Speed & Scalability" is "maybe the best among script-based languages"? Because in the benchmark I cited it gets spanked by pretty much everything, including other interpreted languages like Ruby, which is what I pointed out above (not Java). And if you still can't understand why opcode caching is irrelevant to the benchmark I cited, then you are being a fanboy. If you have a hard time believing that your favorite language may have some performance deficiencies that could be improved then you are acting like a fanboy. Simply saying "I'm not a fanboy" doesn't disprove it because actions speak far louder than words.

katzgrau 15y ago
I did mistake you with another commenter when I said Java. Nonetheless, why do you insist PHP is my "favorite language?" You're drawing an invalid assertion based on the fact that I've been disagreeing with you. I didn't refute that PHP has performance deficiencies either. The only thing I can really say from looking at those benchmarks is that PHP is very likely a poor choice for general purpose (non-web) application development where speed is a definite issue. When building a webapp although, those benchmarks suddenly because unclear to me because they mask the fact that byte/machine code caching is used for some, but not all languages. That feature is available for PHP, and it's called APC. That is all.
- compay 15y ago
  > why do you insist PHP is my "favorite language?" Sorry, I guess I just assumed that because of the amount of time you've dedicated to writing about PHP on your blog, and the fact that all but one of your projects on Github are implemented in PHP. But sure, maybe your favorite programming language is one you never publish code in, and never write about on your blog. Forgive me for assuming too much. BTW, I never said there's anything wrong with PHP being your favorite language, if it is. > You're drawing an invalid assertion based on the fact that I've been disagreeing with you. Bravo, you've scored a point in the argument. However, you've also managed to reduce our conversation from a potentially friendly, intelligent discussion of the benefits and drawbacks of PHP to a competition to cherry pick single sentences and find the tiniest flaw in them, rather than look at the ONLY point I've been trying to make the whole time, which is that PHP's average performance on cross-platform benchmarks is not very good, and so it's not such a good idea to claim it's "maybe the fastest and most scalable scripting language" unless you have good evidence to show why the benchmarks are irrelevant. In the course of this discussion you've lost sight of the fact that I posted a friendly, supportive comment on your post and merely pointed out one thing that I thought was inaccurate, and you've come at me with guns blazing, telling me to look into APC, which I was already using when you were probably still in elementary school. That's why I called you a cocksure noob. > When building a webapp although, those benchmarks suddenly because unclear to me Yep, like I said in my very first comment, I think PHP is often just fine for web apps, because its raw performance in a web context is often not the bottleneck. However, sometimes it is a problem, which is why people have invested the time into creating PHP to native binary compilers, for example. If APC solved all performance problems, do you think anybody would have bothered? > because they mask the fact that byte/machine code caching is used for some Stop equating Java bytecode and PHP bytecode. It's not the case that if you simply enable APC, you'll get in insane performance boost in, for example, array traversal. You'll get a significant performance boost in page request time because the interpreter doesn't need to generate the bytecode over and over again. That's it, unless you throw in an optimizer as well.

by compay 15y ago

katzgrau 15y ago

I did mistake you with another commenter when I said Java. Nonetheless, why do you insist PHP is my "favorite language?" You're drawing an invalid assertion based on the fact that I've been disagreeing with you. I didn't refute that PHP has performance deficiencies either. The only thing I can really say from looking at those benchmarks is that PHP is very likely a poor choice for general purpose (non-web) application development where speed is a definite issue. When building a webapp although, those benchmarks suddenly because unclear to me because they mask the fact that byte/machine code caching is used for some, but not all languages. That feature is available for PHP, and it's called APC. That is all.

compay 15y ago
> why do you insist PHP is my "favorite language?" Sorry, I guess I just assumed that because of the amount of time you've dedicated to writing about PHP on your blog, and the fact that all but one of your projects on Github are implemented in PHP. But sure, maybe your favorite programming language is one you never publish code in, and never write about on your blog. Forgive me for assuming too much. BTW, I never said there's anything wrong with PHP being your favorite language, if it is. > You're drawing an invalid assertion based on the fact that I've been disagreeing with you. Bravo, you've scored a point in the argument. However, you've also managed to reduce our conversation from a potentially friendly, intelligent discussion of the benefits and drawbacks of PHP to a competition to cherry pick single sentences and find the tiniest flaw in them, rather than look at the ONLY point I've been trying to make the whole time, which is that PHP's average performance on cross-platform benchmarks is not very good, and so it's not such a good idea to claim it's "maybe the fastest and most scalable scripting language" unless you have good evidence to show why the benchmarks are irrelevant. In the course of this discussion you've lost sight of the fact that I posted a friendly, supportive comment on your post and merely pointed out one thing that I thought was inaccurate, and you've come at me with guns blazing, telling me to look into APC, which I was already using when you were probably still in elementary school. That's why I called you a cocksure noob. > When building a webapp although, those benchmarks suddenly because unclear to me Yep, like I said in my very first comment, I think PHP is often just fine for web apps, because its raw performance in a web context is often not the bottleneck. However, sometimes it is a problem, which is why people have invested the time into creating PHP to native binary compilers, for example. If APC solved all performance problems, do you think anybody would have bothered? > because they mask the fact that byte/machine code caching is used for some Stop equating Java bytecode and PHP bytecode. It's not the case that if you simply enable APC, you'll get in insane performance boost in, for example, array traversal. You'll get a significant performance boost in page request time because the interpreter doesn't need to generate the bytecode over and over again. That's it, unless you throw in an optimizer as well.