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Socialists and communists have always fixated on capital accumulation as the reason for productivity increases; thus it would be somewhat unnatural for them to

by nickff 6y ago

Socialists and communists have always fixated on capital accumulation as the reason for productivity increases; thus it would be somewhat unnatural for them to reward individuals for what they see as a collective effort.

newen 6y ago
Marxism, at least, centers on the idea that the worker should be compensated fairly for the labor/value that he or she produces. It’s in the first chapter of Capital, after all. Communism I think is about how the workers can bring about this fair compensation through politics (by the proletariat banding together, for example).
- JAlexoid 6y ago
  That's Marxism's initial redistributive aspect, not the core principle. Capital was the foundation for Marxism's development, not the final stage. It's more a case of critique of laisez-faire imperialist capitalism, than anything else.
HarryHirsch 6y ago
What do you make of the Hero of Labour award then? They not only went to particularly productive labourers but also do engineers and scientists (Sakharov is probably best known). Engineering and science is an individual effort, although of course you belong to a greater collective that supported you.
- nickff 6y ago
  Hero of labor was a rare award, only given out 20812 times (according to Wikipedia); I'd be surprised if less than 20k Americans received a bonus on any given week under the current status quo. Please remember that I was responding to a comment, not making an abstract statement that communists never give out awards. The grandparent had said that it would be good if communists and socialists were more generous with awards than capitalists, and I was making the case that it would be antithetical to the typical communist ideology.
  - HarryHirsch 6y ago
    The fact that the award was rare is precisely the point, it's a highly politicised decision to give it, comparable to a military award for exceptional valour. At a lower level, 5-year plan medals were handed out like candy. So, yes, individuals of all kinds were recognized at all levels. In Soviet Russia you worked for people. At Amazon you work for the Machine.
    - nickff 6y ago
      I am not really sure what point you're trying to make. There was an old saying in the Soviet Union: "we pretended to work, and they pretended to pay us". Everything that you're saying is compatible with the notion that the Soviets didn't actually reward innovation and productivity, they just pretended to. Your offhand comment is pithy, but ridiculous on its face.

by nickff 6y ago

newen 6y ago

Marxism, at least, centers on the idea that the worker should be compensated fairly for the labor/value that he or she produces. It’s in the first chapter of Capital, after all. Communism I think is about how the workers can bring about this fair compensation through politics (by the proletariat banding together, for example).

JAlexoid 6y ago
That's Marxism's initial redistributive aspect, not the core principle. Capital was the foundation for Marxism's development, not the final stage. It's more a case of critique of laisez-faire imperialist capitalism, than anything else.

HarryHirsch 6y ago

What do you make of the Hero of Labour award then? They not only went to particularly productive labourers but also do engineers and scientists (Sakharov is probably best known). Engineering and science is an individual effort, although of course you belong to a greater collective that supported you.

nickff 6y ago
Hero of labor was a rare award, only given out 20812 times (according to Wikipedia); I'd be surprised if less than 20k Americans received a bonus on any given week under the current status quo. Please remember that I was responding to a comment, not making an abstract statement that communists never give out awards. The grandparent had said that it would be good if communists and socialists were more generous with awards than capitalists, and I was making the case that it would be antithetical to the typical communist ideology.
- HarryHirsch 6y ago
  The fact that the award was rare is precisely the point, it's a highly politicised decision to give it, comparable to a military award for exceptional valour. At a lower level, 5-year plan medals were handed out like candy. So, yes, individuals of all kinds were recognized at all levels. In Soviet Russia you worked for people. At Amazon you work for the Machine.
  - nickff 6y ago
    I am not really sure what point you're trying to make. There was an old saying in the Soviet Union: "we pretended to work, and they pretended to pay us". Everything that you're saying is compatible with the notion that the Soviets didn't actually reward innovation and productivity, they just pretended to. Your offhand comment is pithy, but ridiculous on its face.