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I fully agree with you. I chose to argue the way I did, because it is much easier to start at that end of the spectrum. If highly skilled highly productive emp

I fully agree with you. I chose to argue the way I did, because it is much easier to start at that end of the spectrum. If highly skilled highly productive employees who contributed massively to the company's bottom line cannot extract a fair share of the value in exchange for their work, then it's easy to convince someone that less skilled labor has these problems, too.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
> If highly skilled highly productive employees who contributed massively to the company's bottom line cannot extract a fair share of the value in exchange for their work, then it's easy to convince someone that less skilled labor has these problems, too. What is the definition of fair share? When you are shopping for something, how do you determine what the fair price is to pay? If I buy a car that enables me to earn $500k per year, do I owe the seller of the car more than someone who buys the same car to earn $50k per year?
- mola 6y ago
  If you work hard everyday, one job should suffice for a home to live in, never worry about food, or how to pay rent, quality education for your children, and a nice vacation once a year and not having a medical event bankrupt you. If a significant part of the population work more than one job, try actively to reach this sort of life, and hardly achieve it, then something is broken. I don't which policy will make us closer to this sort of fairness, but that's the only bottom line that interests me.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    > I don't which policy will make us closer to this sort of fairness, but that's the only bottom line that interests me. It’s government policies that impact all businesses that get us closer to that fairness. Any single business that chooses to pay outsized amounts for their COGS, including labor, will get crushed in the larger market. There might be some like Costco and Apple that can afford to pay more, but they serve middle upper class customers and have a unique product. For everyone else, people will choose to shop at the place that sells bread for 50 cents less.
  - monksy 6y ago
    Let's not forget that the economy has transitioned to have both partners in a marriage to work. (Being dual incoming earning) That's had a few negative effects on the market and social issues (less parental involvement with kids and possibly contributing to a higher divorce rate)
  - mettamage 6y ago
    This sounds really European to me. Is this also the ideal in the USA? I can't see how "a medical event bankrupt you" would ever be possible in the US.
    - DanBC 6y ago
      https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/this-is-the-real-reason-most-americans-file-for-bankruptcy.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/this-is-the-real-reason-most... Two-thirds of people who file for bankruptcy cite medical issues as a key contributor to their financial downfall. While the high cost of health care has historically been a trigger for bankruptcy filings, the research shows that the implementation of the Affordable Care Act has not improved things. What most people do not realize, according to one researcher, is that their health insurance may not be enough to protect them.
- fxtentacle 6y ago
  I would define "fair" here as roughly 3x the local rent, so that your salary is sufficient to comfortably feed a middle-class family. Let's cap that to be at max 25% of the value created for the company, and it's a strong incentive for the inventor while remaining ridiculously profitable for the company.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    It is pretty much impossible to assign numerical values to “the local rent” or “value created for the company”. Hence the whole purpose of markets, where sellers can bet that on the perceived value of their goods and services, and buyers can bet on their perceived value of the goods and services and come to an agreement.

lotsofpulp 6y ago

> If highly skilled highly productive employees who contributed massively to the company's bottom line cannot extract a fair share of the value in exchange for their work, then it's easy to convince someone that less skilled labor has these problems, too. What is the definition of fair share? When you are shopping for something, how do you determine what the fair price is to pay? If I buy a car that enables me to earn $500k per year, do I owe the seller of the car more than someone who buys the same car to earn $50k per year?

mola 6y ago
If you work hard everyday, one job should suffice for a home to live in, never worry about food, or how to pay rent, quality education for your children, and a nice vacation once a year and not having a medical event bankrupt you. If a significant part of the population work more than one job, try actively to reach this sort of life, and hardly achieve it, then something is broken. I don't which policy will make us closer to this sort of fairness, but that's the only bottom line that interests me.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  > I don't which policy will make us closer to this sort of fairness, but that's the only bottom line that interests me. It’s government policies that impact all businesses that get us closer to that fairness. Any single business that chooses to pay outsized amounts for their COGS, including labor, will get crushed in the larger market. There might be some like Costco and Apple that can afford to pay more, but they serve middle upper class customers and have a unique product. For everyone else, people will choose to shop at the place that sells bread for 50 cents less.
- monksy 6y ago
  Let's not forget that the economy has transitioned to have both partners in a marriage to work. (Being dual incoming earning) That's had a few negative effects on the market and social issues (less parental involvement with kids and possibly contributing to a higher divorce rate)
- mettamage 6y ago
  This sounds really European to me. Is this also the ideal in the USA? I can't see how "a medical event bankrupt you" would ever be possible in the US.
  - DanBC 6y ago
    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/this-is-the-real-reason-most-americans-file-for-bankruptcy.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/this-is-the-real-reason-most... Two-thirds of people who file for bankruptcy cite medical issues as a key contributor to their financial downfall. While the high cost of health care has historically been a trigger for bankruptcy filings, the research shows that the implementation of the Affordable Care Act has not improved things. What most people do not realize, according to one researcher, is that their health insurance may not be enough to protect them.
fxtentacle 6y ago
I would define "fair" here as roughly 3x the local rent, so that your salary is sufficient to comfortably feed a middle-class family. Let's cap that to be at max 25% of the value created for the company, and it's a strong incentive for the inventor while remaining ridiculously profitable for the company.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  It is pretty much impossible to assign numerical values to “the local rent” or “value created for the company”. Hence the whole purpose of markets, where sellers can bet that on the perceived value of their goods and services, and buyers can bet on their perceived value of the goods and services and come to an agreement.