4 ms·

I'd hardly call this embracing this thought. The hundred dollars you get is nothing when you destroy the environment.

tremon 6y ago
I'll see your destruction and I'll raise you externalization. Yes, this behaviour is rampant throughout Western society, it's pretty much embraced by capitalism. It's still "who cares about $x, as long as I can get my $y". It doesn't really change the argument much if $x is open source and $y is a free t-shirt, or $x is the habitat of these creatures and $y is gallons of oil. Don't really see how postmodernism fits in with this though.
- mensetmanusman 6y ago
  Maybe this will be interesting: https://youtu.be/8KQcm0Mi5To https://youtu.be/8KQcm0Mi5To I found it interesting at least :)
  - keeganpoppen 6y ago
    huh well i came into that very dubious, but that was actually quite interesting and i listened to every word. i will hand it to religion that they have had a fairly consistent answer to the post-modernism / relativism / post-truth-iness and its attendant ugliness in present times-- the same answer as before any of those things even existed, in fact. xD
    - mensetmanusman 6y ago
      I agree! Glad you enjoyed, have a great day
      - dcow 6y ago
        If you like this you should watch James Lindsay over at New Discourses. He just co-authored a book on this whole topic with Helen Pluckrose from Aero magazine.
- gavinray 6y ago
  Why do people equate capitalism with "Fuck everyone, get money"? Sure, the people who have the majority of the world's wealth may be unsavory, ruthless folks, but let's not toss the baby out with the bathwater. Capitalism is the alternative to state-controlled commerce. If you believe in (here we go with the cringe term) liberty, then you cannot on-premise agree with an economic system that isn't capitalism. (Whether capitalism ever works out in-practice is another argument entirely. My theory is that given any long-enough amount of time, a small group of actors will amass hugely disproportional wealth, and then start gaming/breaking the system for everyone else, as seems to be human nature.) It gets really tiring (especially in modern tech culture) to say "I'm a capitalist" and then have people dogpile on you, asking why you want to pillage the environment and steal all the wealth, etc etc. And then you have to explain, "I want none of that. I just don't want anyone telling you how to live your life, and to have as many opportunities as you can create for yourself." I say all of this as someone who grew up exceedingly poor, in trailer parks eating peanut butter and crackers, with no higher education. There are shitty people everywhere. Because some humans are murderers, does not mean all humans are murderers. Become some people are twisted, unethical capitalists, does not mean all capitalists are twisted and unethical. At some stage of hyper-capitalism, when you hit "oligarch" levels, you've stopped representing capitalistic ideals because you have created a less-free market than when you entered.
  - Phaedor 6y ago
    Because people equate capitalism with America, and "fuck everyone, get money" is literally required by law there. In 1919 Henry Ford was sued by minority share holders because he wanted to increase wages. "The Michigan Supreme Court held that Henry Ford could not lower consumer prices and raise employee salaries." Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co. If you want to claim that America reached "hyper-capitalism" and stopped representing capitalistic ideals 100 years ago, then sure what you are saying makes sense . But I think most people equates capitalism with america.
    - gavinray 6y ago
      I will absolutely agree that America's economic system is nothing close to resembling capitalism. I view capitalism the same way I view communism -- both are bleeding-heart idealism that never works out in practice. But hey, at least on an individual/personal level you can pick that hill to die on, however futile it may be.

I'll see your destruction and I'll raise you externalization. Yes, this behaviour is rampant throughout Western society, it's pretty much embraced by capitalism. It's still "who cares about $x, as long as I can get my $y". It doesn't really change the argument much if $x is open source and $y is a free t-shirt, or $x is the habitat of these creatures and $y is gallons of oil. Don't really see how postmodernism fits in with this though.

mensetmanusman 6y ago
Maybe this will be interesting: https://youtu.be/8KQcm0Mi5To https://youtu.be/8KQcm0Mi5To I found it interesting at least :)
- keeganpoppen 6y ago
  huh well i came into that very dubious, but that was actually quite interesting and i listened to every word. i will hand it to religion that they have had a fairly consistent answer to the post-modernism / relativism / post-truth-iness and its attendant ugliness in present times-- the same answer as before any of those things even existed, in fact. xD
  - mensetmanusman 6y ago
    I agree! Glad you enjoyed, have a great day
    - dcow 6y ago
      If you like this you should watch James Lindsay over at New Discourses. He just co-authored a book on this whole topic with Helen Pluckrose from Aero magazine.
gavinray 6y ago
Why do people equate capitalism with "Fuck everyone, get money"? Sure, the people who have the majority of the world's wealth may be unsavory, ruthless folks, but let's not toss the baby out with the bathwater. Capitalism is the alternative to state-controlled commerce. If you believe in (here we go with the cringe term) liberty, then you cannot on-premise agree with an economic system that isn't capitalism. (Whether capitalism ever works out in-practice is another argument entirely. My theory is that given any long-enough amount of time, a small group of actors will amass hugely disproportional wealth, and then start gaming/breaking the system for everyone else, as seems to be human nature.) It gets really tiring (especially in modern tech culture) to say "I'm a capitalist" and then have people dogpile on you, asking why you want to pillage the environment and steal all the wealth, etc etc. And then you have to explain, "I want none of that. I just don't want anyone telling you how to live your life, and to have as many opportunities as you can create for yourself." I say all of this as someone who grew up exceedingly poor, in trailer parks eating peanut butter and crackers, with no higher education. There are shitty people everywhere. Because some humans are murderers, does not mean all humans are murderers. Become some people are twisted, unethical capitalists, does not mean all capitalists are twisted and unethical. At some stage of hyper-capitalism, when you hit "oligarch" levels, you've stopped representing capitalistic ideals because you have created a less-free market than when you entered.
- Phaedor 6y ago
  Because people equate capitalism with America, and "fuck everyone, get money" is literally required by law there. In 1919 Henry Ford was sued by minority share holders because he wanted to increase wages. "The Michigan Supreme Court held that Henry Ford could not lower consumer prices and raise employee salaries." Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co. If you want to claim that America reached "hyper-capitalism" and stopped representing capitalistic ideals 100 years ago, then sure what you are saying makes sense . But I think most people equates capitalism with america.
  - gavinray 6y ago
    I will absolutely agree that America's economic system is nothing close to resembling capitalism. I view capitalism the same way I view communism -- both are bleeding-heart idealism that never works out in practice. But hey, at least on an individual/personal level you can pick that hill to die on, however futile it may be.