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If ads were blocked and users paid for content, surveillance would be less profitable and so less would be done. Granted it's hard to coordinate both together,

If ads were blocked and users paid for content, surveillance would be less profitable and so less would be done. Granted it's hard to coordinate both together, but let's be real: given the choice, 90% of the time users pick ads over paying -- you can see this among the vast majority of muggles who don't even try to ad block (so presumably don't really care about these issues) but still prefer free ad-based websites to paying for subscriptions. People pay for stuff that has a wall around it and can't be easily pirated. (Note: most news we read (measured by page views) is pirated by adware websites after someone published original research.) Maybe YOU block or just avoid ads and pay for non-spyware stuff, but businesses overall respond to the masses. Even on the super private ad-restricting expensive iPhone, most users immediately rush to adbacked trash websites.

minitoar 6y ago
Blaming my parents for not knowing how to install ad block or that it is even an option, and then expect them to navigate the anti-ad block JavaScript is a bit much.
- netcan 6y ago
  Exactly! It's even worse than that, because even if your parents did know how to install an ad blocker it would not solve the problem. Data monopolies are fighting blockers, and the more they're used, the harder they fight. Pointing the finger at your parents is totally wrong. Your parents aren't at fault, all these damned spyware companies are at fault. This trite cliche has got to stop. It's both factually incorrect and morally unconscionable.
netcan 6y ago
Totally disagree. First, if users could effectively block advertising and spying, then the problem would be solved regardless of paying. The data monopolies (and would be parts of those monopolies) are actively and effectively combatting blocking. The "because free" trope is a blackboard theory. It's clearly not true in reality, but people still argue that it's "true in theory." This isn't a theoretical scenario. There are plenty of paid products, and they also spy on us. Echo, android, spotify... In reality, besides apple, most of the largest fortunes made recently in the tech space are based on advertising, data collection and monopolising the marketplaces, platforms, feeds or pipelines. Even Tesla's insanely high stock price is primarily based on data collection. It's their edge in the autonomous driving race. Teslas aren't free. Facebook and Google would still spy and advertise because it is far more profitable than selling, and creates a more convenient relationship with "customers." They also spy on their "partners," and were recently fined >$bn for doing so monopolistically. Anyway, the "adbacked trash websites" aren't the main problem... The main problem are the adbacked empires of Google Facebook & co.
- Aunche 6y ago
  > There are plenty of paid products, and they also spy on us. Echo, android, spotify. You pay for the Echo/Android device. You aren't paying form Alexa and the Android OS and core apps like Maps. None of this can exist if without some for of using your data for profit. I don't think it's fair to lump Neflix and Spotify into this. Their data collection is directly related to the services they provide like recommendations. IMO it's at the same level of data collection as supermarket rewards cards, which are most people are happy with.
nottorp 6y ago
> 90% of the time users pick ads over paying Or don't get the option. Please make my local newspaper take a subscription for ad-free browsing :) There are also the times when the subscription is as predatory as the ads, like the traditional US large publishers where you can sign up online but have to call a number and go through marketing to cancel. Those aren't any better than the ads.

minitoar 6y ago

Blaming my parents for not knowing how to install ad block or that it is even an option, and then expect them to navigate the anti-ad block JavaScript is a bit much.

netcan 6y ago
Exactly! It's even worse than that, because even if your parents did know how to install an ad blocker it would not solve the problem. Data monopolies are fighting blockers, and the more they're used, the harder they fight. Pointing the finger at your parents is totally wrong. Your parents aren't at fault, all these damned spyware companies are at fault. This trite cliche has got to stop. It's both factually incorrect and morally unconscionable.

netcan 6y ago

Totally disagree. First, if users could effectively block advertising and spying, then the problem would be solved regardless of paying. The data monopolies (and would be parts of those monopolies) are actively and effectively combatting blocking. The "because free" trope is a blackboard theory. It's clearly not true in reality, but people still argue that it's "true in theory." This isn't a theoretical scenario. There are plenty of paid products, and they also spy on us. Echo, android, spotify... In reality, besides apple, most of the largest fortunes made recently in the tech space are based on advertising, data collection and monopolising the marketplaces, platforms, feeds or pipelines. Even Tesla's insanely high stock price is primarily based on data collection. It's their edge in the autonomous driving race. Teslas aren't free. Facebook and Google would still spy and advertise because it is far more profitable than selling, and creates a more convenient relationship with "customers." They also spy on their "partners," and were recently fined >$bn for doing so monopolistically. Anyway, the "adbacked trash websites" aren't the main problem... The main problem are the adbacked empires of Google Facebook & co.

Aunche 6y ago
> There are plenty of paid products, and they also spy on us. Echo, android, spotify. You pay for the Echo/Android device. You aren't paying form Alexa and the Android OS and core apps like Maps. None of this can exist if without some for of using your data for profit. I don't think it's fair to lump Neflix and Spotify into this. Their data collection is directly related to the services they provide like recommendations. IMO it's at the same level of data collection as supermarket rewards cards, which are most people are happy with.

nottorp 6y ago

> 90% of the time users pick ads over paying Or don't get the option. Please make my local newspaper take a subscription for ad-free browsing :) There are also the times when the subscription is as predatory as the ads, like the traditional US large publishers where you can sign up online but have to call a number and go through marketing to cancel. Those aren't any better than the ads.