5 ms·

Exactly. Also, proportion of income spent on student loans at 25 years old. My grandpa had a random part time job and put himself through university.

by dwiel 6y ago

bhupy 6y ago
Some data to quantify that phenomenon -> https://twitter.com/jmhorp/status/1213150244160102400 https://twitter.com/jmhorp/status/1213150244160102400 It's a little harder to pay for college on a teenage wage than it may have been 35 years ago, but not that much harder.
- quacked 6y ago
  Going by that guy's numbers, someone in 1986 had to work 73 hours per week to afford a semester of college. I either don't think those numbers are accurate enough to reflect people who "put themselves through college", or that people back in the '80s didn't actually put themselves through college. Edit: To clarify, he says "net tuition", then throws out a $15,000 number for modern colleges. That's on the low-to-medium end of the per-semester cost of a modern public institution, so I'm assuming he's also listing the per-semester cost for the 1986 tuition.
  - bhupy 6y ago
    The numbers don't necessarily represent how people put themselves through college, on average — it's just an apples-to-apples comparison of what it would take to "put yourself through college" in 1986 vs today.
    - quacked 6y ago
      Right, but I'm saying I don't think his numbers are correct. Either it was also not possible on average to put yourself through college in 1986, similar to how it's not possible on average to put yourself through college today, or his numbers are wrong. In fact, I bet it wasn't actually possible to put yourself through college in 1986. I bet the people who put themselves through college went between 1950 and 1975.
      - bhupy 6y ago
        His numbers are correct, because they never actually claimed that it was possible (on average) to put yourself through college in 1986. > In fact, I bet it wasn't actually possible to put yourself through college in 1986. Possibly, the numbers don't claim otherwise. They just compare the median teenage wage to the net tuition of the time — across 2 different snapshots.
        quacked 6y ago
        Ah, I see.
        xg15 6y ago
        > His numbers are correct, because they never actually claimed that it was possible (on average) to put yourself through college in 1986. I can't validate the numbers but that would make your claim from earlier highly misleading: > It's a little harder to pay for college on a teenage wage than it may have been 35 years ago, but not that much harder. That's technically correct in the sense that it was already almost impossible back then and only got slightly more impossible today.
        bhupy 6y ago
        No, the whole point is "not much as changed". The narrative that one could pay their way through all of college is one that likely never really existed for a broad enough population outside of a brief unreproducible period after WW2 where the entire world was in ruins and the US was the sole supplier of all goods & services globally.
      - notacoward 6y ago
        I can attest that was pretty hard in 1981, even at in-state rates.
  - leetcrew 6y ago
    > Edit: To clarify, he says "net tuition", then throws out a $15,000 number for modern colleges. That's on the low-to-medium end of the per-semester cost of a modern public institution, so I'm assuming he's also listing the per-semester cost for the 1986 tuition. not sure where you're getting those numbers. the average annual cost (tuition + fees + room + board) of a four-year public institution is around $20k. [0] $15k per semester is far from the low-to-medium end. [0] https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=76 https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=76
    - bhupy 6y ago
      Those are sticker prices, which are only paid by the rich. The net tuition prices are a lot lower -> https://twitter.com/CPopeHC/status/1301975027147997189 https://twitter.com/CPopeHC/status/1301975027147997189
    - quacked 6y ago
      2020 in-state and out-of-state tuitions averaged are about $15k/semester for public universities. https://www.valuepenguin.com/student-loans/average-cost-of-college#:~:text=Average%20Cost%20of%20College%20by%20State,not%20including%20room%20and%20board https://www.valuepenguin.com/student-loans/average-cost-of-c.... If one is talking exclusively about in-state tuition, my numbers are high, but my understanding is that enough students pay out-of-state tuition that the discrepancy becomes relevant. Child commenter to your comment may be right about sticker prices being paid by the rich, which I don't know as much about. To be clear, I think college is an expensive, unnecessary scam that does very little to serve either individuals or society; I just think that it's trended more expensive and worse over the past few decades.
      - leetcrew 6y ago
        ah, that probably accounts for the discrepancy. I think the in-state figures may be more relevant to the discussion at hand though. why would someone paying their own way through school choose to forgo the in-state discount?
        6y ago
notacoward 6y ago
I'd love to combine this with the previous idea. What's the ratio of median home price to first full-time full-year income minus student loan payments? That would probably put the difference between then and now in even starker relief.
quietbritishjim 6y ago
Agreed, and here in the UK the trend is even more pronounced: there were no tuition fees at all twenty years ago. In fact the government used to pay students a grant to go to university (although in its final years the grant had shrunk past the point of being much use).
bostonvaulter2 6y ago
Don't forget healthcare also.

Exactly. Also, proportion of income spent on student loans at 25 years old. My grandpa had a random part time job and put himself through university.

by dwiel 6y ago

Exactly. Also, proportion of income spent on student loans at 25 years old. My grandpa had a random part time job and put himself through university.

bhupy 6y ago

Some data to quantify that phenomenon -> https://twitter.com/jmhorp/status/1213150244160102400 https://twitter.com/jmhorp/status/1213150244160102400 It's a little harder to pay for college on a teenage wage than it may have been 35 years ago, but not that much harder.

quacked 6y ago
Going by that guy's numbers, someone in 1986 had to work 73 hours per week to afford a semester of college. I either don't think those numbers are accurate enough to reflect people who "put themselves through college", or that people back in the '80s didn't actually put themselves through college. Edit: To clarify, he says "net tuition", then throws out a $15,000 number for modern colleges. That's on the low-to-medium end of the per-semester cost of a modern public institution, so I'm assuming he's also listing the per-semester cost for the 1986 tuition.
- bhupy 6y ago
  The numbers don't necessarily represent how people put themselves through college, on average — it's just an apples-to-apples comparison of what it would take to "put yourself through college" in 1986 vs today.
  - quacked 6y ago
    Right, but I'm saying I don't think his numbers are correct. Either it was also not possible on average to put yourself through college in 1986, similar to how it's not possible on average to put yourself through college today, or his numbers are wrong. In fact, I bet it wasn't actually possible to put yourself through college in 1986. I bet the people who put themselves through college went between 1950 and 1975.
    - bhupy 6y ago
      His numbers are correct, because they never actually claimed that it was possible (on average) to put yourself through college in 1986. > In fact, I bet it wasn't actually possible to put yourself through college in 1986. Possibly, the numbers don't claim otherwise. They just compare the median teenage wage to the net tuition of the time — across 2 different snapshots.
      - quacked 6y ago
        Ah, I see.
      - xg15 6y ago
        > His numbers are correct, because they never actually claimed that it was possible (on average) to put yourself through college in 1986. I can't validate the numbers but that would make your claim from earlier highly misleading: > It's a little harder to pay for college on a teenage wage than it may have been 35 years ago, but not that much harder. That's technically correct in the sense that it was already almost impossible back then and only got slightly more impossible today.
        bhupy 6y ago
        No, the whole point is "not much as changed". The narrative that one could pay their way through all of college is one that likely never really existed for a broad enough population outside of a brief unreproducible period after WW2 where the entire world was in ruins and the US was the sole supplier of all goods & services globally.
    - notacoward 6y ago
      I can attest that was pretty hard in 1981, even at in-state rates.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  > Edit: To clarify, he says "net tuition", then throws out a $15,000 number for modern colleges. That's on the low-to-medium end of the per-semester cost of a modern public institution, so I'm assuming he's also listing the per-semester cost for the 1986 tuition. not sure where you're getting those numbers. the average annual cost (tuition + fees + room + board) of a four-year public institution is around $20k. [0] $15k per semester is far from the low-to-medium end. [0] https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=76 https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=76
  - bhupy 6y ago
    Those are sticker prices, which are only paid by the rich. The net tuition prices are a lot lower -> https://twitter.com/CPopeHC/status/1301975027147997189 https://twitter.com/CPopeHC/status/1301975027147997189
  - quacked 6y ago
    2020 in-state and out-of-state tuitions averaged are about $15k/semester for public universities. https://www.valuepenguin.com/student-loans/average-cost-of-college#:~:text=Average%20Cost%20of%20College%20by%20State,not%20including%20room%20and%20board https://www.valuepenguin.com/student-loans/average-cost-of-c.... If one is talking exclusively about in-state tuition, my numbers are high, but my understanding is that enough students pay out-of-state tuition that the discrepancy becomes relevant. Child commenter to your comment may be right about sticker prices being paid by the rich, which I don't know as much about. To be clear, I think college is an expensive, unnecessary scam that does very little to serve either individuals or society; I just think that it's trended more expensive and worse over the past few decades.
    - leetcrew 6y ago
      ah, that probably accounts for the discrepancy. I think the in-state figures may be more relevant to the discussion at hand though. why would someone paying their own way through school choose to forgo the in-state discount?
      - 6y ago

notacoward 6y ago

I'd love to combine this with the previous idea. What's the ratio of median home price to first full-time full-year income minus student loan payments? That would probably put the difference between then and now in even starker relief.

quietbritishjim 6y ago

Agreed, and here in the UK the trend is even more pronounced: there were no tuition fees at all twenty years ago. In fact the government used to pay students a grant to go to university (although in its final years the grant had shrunk past the point of being much use).

bostonvaulter2 6y ago

Don't forget healthcare also.