4 ms·

I wonder how much the stories about Japanese unemployment are just driven the the need for a good story vs. looking at actual figures. The Japanese labor force

by yorwba 6y ago

I wonder how much the stories about Japanese unemployment are just driven the the need for a good story vs. looking at actual figures. The Japanese labor force participation rate for 15-64 year-olds rose from about 70% in 1990 to 79% in 2020, as estimated by the International Labour Organization. In that time frame, it overtook China and the US (both have falling labor force participation rates) and the only other country with a similar trajectory I could find is Germany. Most other countries I tried have much lower rates. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.ACTI.ZS?locations=JP-US-KR-HK-CN-FR-DE https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.ACTI.ZS?location...

brazzy 6y ago
The participation rate is a really coarse measure. In Japan, it has increased mainly because among the younger generation, far more women stay in the workforce after their 20s. But as the article describes, their career prospects are very limited and few of them ever get a chance at stable lifetime employment that used to be the norm (but is also becoming less and less available) for men.
- yorwba 6y ago
  The male labor force participation rate grew from 83% to 86%. So although the increase was greater for women (from 57% to 72%), that hasn't reduced male employment. Male https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.ACTI.MA.ZS?locations=JP-US-KR-HK-CN-FR-DE https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.ACTI.MA.ZS?locat... Female https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.ACTI.FE.ZS?locations=JP-US-KR-HK-CN-FR-DE https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.ACTI.FE.ZS?locat... By "stable lifetime employment" do you mean staying at a single company for one's whole working life? Do you have any statistics showing that this is decreasing? (Even if it does, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.)
  - brazzy 6y ago
    > By "stable lifetime employment" do you mean staying at a single company for one's whole working life? Mainly I mean a full-time, non-temporary work contract. Traditionally, in Japan that kind of contract also implies "staying at a single company for one's whole working life". > Do you have any statistics showing that this is decreasing? Look at the second chart here: https://www.nippon.com/en/currents/d00151/ https://www.nippon.com/en/currents/d00151/ > Even if it does, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. You think so because in the US and Europe, "staying at a single company for one's whole working life" is usually sub-optimal for the employee's career and earning potential. When switching companies, you can usually negotiate a higher salary than you could get via raises at your old company. In Japan, it's different. High salaries and career prospects are basically only available in those "staying at a single company for one's whole working life" gigs, and they are given only to fresh university graduates. If you don't manage to get one of those (because companies weren't hiring when you were a fresh graduate), you'll be forever a second-class employee with a temporary contract, lower pay and less benefits.
unishark 6y ago
This is more a story about a particular subset of unemployed that follow a rather stereotypical pattern, not the norm. They fizzle out around college, then practically never do anything which requires initiative after that. It seems like just a manifestation of how mental illness can play out within that particular culture.
uhryks 6y ago
It's very easy in japan to find a "baito" job, that is low skill, part time and paid at the hour and with no benefits. People like the "freeters" cumulate several of these jobs to earn a decent monthly wage. The problem is of course that there is no security of employment, very little rights and as I said no benefits like pension. Housing is still doable as the market is not too high tension, but it's pretty much impossible for them to get a loan for anything. Raising children and sending them to higher education is pretty much not feasible. I guess for US people it's pretty similar to the fast-food workers earning less than livable wage.

by yorwba 6y ago

brazzy 6y ago

The participation rate is a really coarse measure. In Japan, it has increased mainly because among the younger generation, far more women stay in the workforce after their 20s. But as the article describes, their career prospects are very limited and few of them ever get a chance at stable lifetime employment that used to be the norm (but is also becoming less and less available) for men.

yorwba 6y ago
The male labor force participation rate grew from 83% to 86%. So although the increase was greater for women (from 57% to 72%), that hasn't reduced male employment. Male https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.ACTI.MA.ZS?locations=JP-US-KR-HK-CN-FR-DE https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.ACTI.MA.ZS?locat... Female https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.ACTI.FE.ZS?locations=JP-US-KR-HK-CN-FR-DE https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.ACTI.FE.ZS?locat... By "stable lifetime employment" do you mean staying at a single company for one's whole working life? Do you have any statistics showing that this is decreasing? (Even if it does, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.)
- brazzy 6y ago
  > By "stable lifetime employment" do you mean staying at a single company for one's whole working life? Mainly I mean a full-time, non-temporary work contract. Traditionally, in Japan that kind of contract also implies "staying at a single company for one's whole working life". > Do you have any statistics showing that this is decreasing? Look at the second chart here: https://www.nippon.com/en/currents/d00151/ https://www.nippon.com/en/currents/d00151/ > Even if it does, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. You think so because in the US and Europe, "staying at a single company for one's whole working life" is usually sub-optimal for the employee's career and earning potential. When switching companies, you can usually negotiate a higher salary than you could get via raises at your old company. In Japan, it's different. High salaries and career prospects are basically only available in those "staying at a single company for one's whole working life" gigs, and they are given only to fresh university graduates. If you don't manage to get one of those (because companies weren't hiring when you were a fresh graduate), you'll be forever a second-class employee with a temporary contract, lower pay and less benefits.

unishark 6y ago

This is more a story about a particular subset of unemployed that follow a rather stereotypical pattern, not the norm. They fizzle out around college, then practically never do anything which requires initiative after that. It seems like just a manifestation of how mental illness can play out within that particular culture.

uhryks 6y ago

It's very easy in japan to find a "baito" job, that is low skill, part time and paid at the hour and with no benefits. People like the "freeters" cumulate several of these jobs to earn a decent monthly wage. The problem is of course that there is no security of employment, very little rights and as I said no benefits like pension. Housing is still doable as the market is not too high tension, but it's pretty much impossible for them to get a loan for anything. Raising children and sending them to higher education is pretty much not feasible. I guess for US people it's pretty similar to the fast-food workers earning less than livable wage.