4 ms·

Exactly, Americans seem to have this weird view that no-one's culture should mix. I think in the UK the view of most people is that mixing cultures is fine as

Exactly, Americans seem to have this weird view that no-one's culture should mix. I think in the UK the view of most people is that mixing cultures is fine as long as it's respectful I grew up in a multicultural town in the UK (also home to a lot of racism unfortunately) but we had a yearly (carribean I think) carnival with music and floats and costumes and food. People would turn out in the thousands and it didn't matter your skin colour because you were there to join in the fun. It doesn't matter if you wore something that wasn't traditionally part of your culture, because you were doing so to join in the fun, not to belittle people

jkingsbery 6y ago
> Americans seem to have this weird view Some Americans, anyway. Growing up in the US, I was always taught the US was "the great melting pot." But I agree, it doesn't seem like it lately.
- ChrisRR 6y ago
  You're right. I should've said the most vocal americans
- luckylion 6y ago
  The melting pot metaphor was replaced by a salad bowl, wasn't it? Assimilation (which is the melting pot) is now considered a crime against humanity and the whole "separate but equal" is the new hotness.
  - dafoex 6y ago
    And you can't argue with salad because its healthy, and we are too fat, and we aught to be trying to live longer lives even though there's no incentive for most of us to prolong our misery.
    - caffeine 6y ago
      I hope you don't mean that!
  - taylodl 6y ago
    It was, and that's not altogether bad. A melting pot implies homogeneity and the loss of one's identity and history. A salad bowl is a pleasant mixing of everything, with each component still retaining its identity - a carrot is still a carrot, a radish is still a radish, and so forth. The irony is if I want to celebrate the zest of a radish then I'm told I'm being insensitive and appropriating the radish culture. As is so often the case we end up moving neither forward nor backward but sideways. In the end I like the salad bowl metaphor because it scales well globally. We're a single human race, all different, yet all the same. It's appropriate to celebrate one another's histories so long as we're mindful of our collective future.
    - finnthehuman 6y ago
      >A melting pot implies homogeneity and the loss of one's identity and history. That's the contemporary narrative, yes. In another light it's just saying "E pluribus unum." Before it became uncouth to express a spirit of national unity or civic pride, the melting pot was a way of expressing that who we are is defined by our coming together to participate in the great project we call our nation. And as part of that, we're sharing in the uniqueness each of us bring and hard boundaries start "melting" together as we form a shared history and culture. A very chunky concoction constantly getting new pieces added, not a smooth uniform mixture left to simmer. We now live in an age where "identity" often means participating in a stereotype that's actively gatekept. So the melting pot metaphor had to fall out of favor.
      - 082349872349872 6y ago
        E pluribus unum is a bit reminiscent of the fascis. I'm currently searching for a word for the rods, all trimmed to the same length à la Procrustes, that constituted fasces, and will report back here if I manage to find it. (a different motto, unus pro omnibus, omnes pro uno, not only mentions the relation of the parts to the whole, but also that of whole to its parts: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24661326 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24661326 ) Edit: so far I've learned only that the axe was the securis and that holders of high office would have their servants put the fascis on the ground, instead of holding them aloft, when they wished to emphasise they were on the people's side of an issue. Still no word for the individual rods, however.
  - jkingsbery 6y ago
    Like all metaphors, "the melting pot" has its limits. I've always thought it's for the best that, even though I'm mostly of English and Irish descent that I enjoy Indian, Italian and middle eastern food, and while maintaining my Catholic faith I have Jewish and Muslim coworkers whom I admire and look to examples. While my identity is still "Irish Catholic," I've been enriched (and yes, changed) through exposure to others.
nobody9999 6y ago
>Exactly, Americans seem to have this weird view that no-one's culture should mix. Unless you replace "Americans" with "a small group of obnoxious loudmouths from the US on social media" in your statement, you don't reflect reality. I heartily encourage you (once it's safe to do so) to come and visit New York City. Have some pizza at a place run by Greeks. Have a delicious bagel (I recommend an everything bagel with brie and tomatoes, yum!) at a bagelry[0] owned and run by a Thai family. Have some ropa vieja with shrimp fried rice at one of many Chinese/Latin restaurants. And a place near me has wonderful Callaloo and delicious curry goat. And there are at least half a dozen places near me where I can get a tasty mofongo[1]. Or one of many Caribbean, Malaysian, Korean, Japanese, Brazilian, African and European restaurants, bars, music venues, festivals and all manner of other culture from six continents. I was really sad when the French bakery near me closed. The croissant were nearly as good as the ones I had in Paris. And that's just the food. Cultures, languages and customs mix freely here. While there certainly are distinct cultures, they are welcomed and often incorporated into the broader culture. I think that you'd find that to be true in most urban areas (and many suburban ones). That said, there are many places in the US which are not culturally or ethnically diverse at all. Which isn't surprising. The US is big. It has ~75% of the population of the EU in an area more than twice the size of the EU. Consider how homogeneous some areas of the EU are. Why is that? Is it because they're all bigots and 'limeys' don't want 'frogs' around, etc? [0] https://www.thrillist.com/venue/eat/new-york/restaurants/absolute-bagels https://www.thrillist.com/venue/eat/new-york/restaurants/abs... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mofongo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mofongo
edbob 6y ago
> Exactly, Americans seem to have this weird view that no-one's culture should mix. 90%+ of the people who think that are liberals. Moderates and conservatives can mix cultures pretty freely.
- nobody9999 6y ago
  >90%+ of the people who think that are liberals. Moderates and conservatives can mix cultures pretty freely. That hasn't been my experience at all. And I'm center-left myself. You know, somewhat to the left of Bernie Sanders. It seems you don't know many of your brother and sister Americans that you call "liberals." Here in NYC we have about a 5:1 D/R ratio and you won't find many places on the planet, let alone in the US, that are more welcoming of different cultures, practices and individual choice. I suggest you engage with your fellow Americans. I think you'll find that the vast majority of us have much more in common than we do differences. There are those (like the ones telling you that ~200 million of your fellow Americans are evil, twisted communists who want to destroy our economy and Constitution) who want you to hate and fear your neighbors and fellow citizens. Those people (regardless of political bent or affiliation) are the ones who threaten to destroy our democracy and Constitution. As a general rule, folks like that are only interested in personal benefit and self-aggrandizement. And they're a very small group. Would it surprise you to know that most of the folks you call "liberals" just want a decent job/career so they can live decently and raise their kids to be happy, healthy and fulfilled? Would you be shocked to hear that those you deride believe in the ideals of our democratic republic, or that we believe in the rule of law, equal protection under the law and freedom of expression? If you believe that a majority of Americans are communists and hateful people who want to destroy their own country, then you're not seeing the world as it is. I'd welcome the opportunity to discuss the importance of tolerance, liberty and the ideals which fomented the founding and second founding[0] of our nation with you. As I mentioned above, I think you'll find we agree about much, much more than we disagree. If that sounds like a good idea to you, feel free to email me (no spaces or commas): En,,,cyclic al 17,76 at pro,,,ton mail dot co, , ,m I don't normally do this sort of thing, but I'm so sick of the negativity and lies that make us suspicious and fearful of our fellow Americans. I want my country to be a great place with liberty and opportunity for everyone. But we can't have that if we the people let those with the desire and motivation to create conflict divide us. Even if you don't talk to me, please open yourself to the possibility that what you read on Twitter and Facebook doesn't reflect the values of most of your fellow Americans. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Second_Founding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Second_Founding

jkingsbery 6y ago

> Americans seem to have this weird view Some Americans, anyway. Growing up in the US, I was always taught the US was "the great melting pot." But I agree, it doesn't seem like it lately.

ChrisRR 6y ago
You're right. I should've said the most vocal americans
luckylion 6y ago
The melting pot metaphor was replaced by a salad bowl, wasn't it? Assimilation (which is the melting pot) is now considered a crime against humanity and the whole "separate but equal" is the new hotness.
- dafoex 6y ago
  And you can't argue with salad because its healthy, and we are too fat, and we aught to be trying to live longer lives even though there's no incentive for most of us to prolong our misery.
  - caffeine 6y ago
    I hope you don't mean that!
- taylodl 6y ago
  It was, and that's not altogether bad. A melting pot implies homogeneity and the loss of one's identity and history. A salad bowl is a pleasant mixing of everything, with each component still retaining its identity - a carrot is still a carrot, a radish is still a radish, and so forth. The irony is if I want to celebrate the zest of a radish then I'm told I'm being insensitive and appropriating the radish culture. As is so often the case we end up moving neither forward nor backward but sideways. In the end I like the salad bowl metaphor because it scales well globally. We're a single human race, all different, yet all the same. It's appropriate to celebrate one another's histories so long as we're mindful of our collective future.
  - finnthehuman 6y ago
    >A melting pot implies homogeneity and the loss of one's identity and history. That's the contemporary narrative, yes. In another light it's just saying "E pluribus unum." Before it became uncouth to express a spirit of national unity or civic pride, the melting pot was a way of expressing that who we are is defined by our coming together to participate in the great project we call our nation. And as part of that, we're sharing in the uniqueness each of us bring and hard boundaries start "melting" together as we form a shared history and culture. A very chunky concoction constantly getting new pieces added, not a smooth uniform mixture left to simmer. We now live in an age where "identity" often means participating in a stereotype that's actively gatekept. So the melting pot metaphor had to fall out of favor.
    - 082349872349872 6y ago
      E pluribus unum is a bit reminiscent of the fascis. I'm currently searching for a word for the rods, all trimmed to the same length à la Procrustes, that constituted fasces, and will report back here if I manage to find it. (a different motto, unus pro omnibus, omnes pro uno, not only mentions the relation of the parts to the whole, but also that of whole to its parts: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24661326 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24661326 ) Edit: so far I've learned only that the axe was the securis and that holders of high office would have their servants put the fascis on the ground, instead of holding them aloft, when they wished to emphasise they were on the people's side of an issue. Still no word for the individual rods, however.
- jkingsbery 6y ago
  Like all metaphors, "the melting pot" has its limits. I've always thought it's for the best that, even though I'm mostly of English and Irish descent that I enjoy Indian, Italian and middle eastern food, and while maintaining my Catholic faith I have Jewish and Muslim coworkers whom I admire and look to examples. While my identity is still "Irish Catholic," I've been enriched (and yes, changed) through exposure to others.

nobody9999 6y ago

>Exactly, Americans seem to have this weird view that no-one's culture should mix. Unless you replace "Americans" with "a small group of obnoxious loudmouths from the US on social media" in your statement, you don't reflect reality. I heartily encourage you (once it's safe to do so) to come and visit New York City. Have some pizza at a place run by Greeks. Have a delicious bagel (I recommend an everything bagel with brie and tomatoes, yum!) at a bagelry[0] owned and run by a Thai family. Have some ropa vieja with shrimp fried rice at one of many Chinese/Latin restaurants. And a place near me has wonderful Callaloo and delicious curry goat. And there are at least half a dozen places near me where I can get a tasty mofongo[1]. Or one of many Caribbean, Malaysian, Korean, Japanese, Brazilian, African and European restaurants, bars, music venues, festivals and all manner of other culture from six continents. I was really sad when the French bakery near me closed. The croissant were nearly as good as the ones I had in Paris. And that's just the food. Cultures, languages and customs mix freely here. While there certainly are distinct cultures, they are welcomed and often incorporated into the broader culture. I think that you'd find that to be true in most urban areas (and many suburban ones). That said, there are many places in the US which are not culturally or ethnically diverse at all. Which isn't surprising. The US is big. It has ~75% of the population of the EU in an area more than twice the size of the EU. Consider how homogeneous some areas of the EU are. Why is that? Is it because they're all bigots and 'limeys' don't want 'frogs' around, etc? [0] https://www.thrillist.com/venue/eat/new-york/restaurants/absolute-bagels https://www.thrillist.com/venue/eat/new-york/restaurants/abs... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mofongo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mofongo

edbob 6y ago

> Exactly, Americans seem to have this weird view that no-one's culture should mix. 90%+ of the people who think that are liberals. Moderates and conservatives can mix cultures pretty freely.

nobody9999 6y ago
>90%+ of the people who think that are liberals. Moderates and conservatives can mix cultures pretty freely. That hasn't been my experience at all. And I'm center-left myself. You know, somewhat to the left of Bernie Sanders. It seems you don't know many of your brother and sister Americans that you call "liberals." Here in NYC we have about a 5:1 D/R ratio and you won't find many places on the planet, let alone in the US, that are more welcoming of different cultures, practices and individual choice. I suggest you engage with your fellow Americans. I think you'll find that the vast majority of us have much more in common than we do differences. There are those (like the ones telling you that ~200 million of your fellow Americans are evil, twisted communists who want to destroy our economy and Constitution) who want you to hate and fear your neighbors and fellow citizens. Those people (regardless of political bent or affiliation) are the ones who threaten to destroy our democracy and Constitution. As a general rule, folks like that are only interested in personal benefit and self-aggrandizement. And they're a very small group. Would it surprise you to know that most of the folks you call "liberals" just want a decent job/career so they can live decently and raise their kids to be happy, healthy and fulfilled? Would you be shocked to hear that those you deride believe in the ideals of our democratic republic, or that we believe in the rule of law, equal protection under the law and freedom of expression? If you believe that a majority of Americans are communists and hateful people who want to destroy their own country, then you're not seeing the world as it is. I'd welcome the opportunity to discuss the importance of tolerance, liberty and the ideals which fomented the founding and second founding[0] of our nation with you. As I mentioned above, I think you'll find we agree about much, much more than we disagree. If that sounds like a good idea to you, feel free to email me (no spaces or commas): En,,,cyclic al 17,76 at pro,,,ton mail dot co, , ,m I don't normally do this sort of thing, but I'm so sick of the negativity and lies that make us suspicious and fearful of our fellow Americans. I want my country to be a great place with liberty and opportunity for everyone. But we can't have that if we the people let those with the desire and motivation to create conflict divide us. Even if you don't talk to me, please open yourself to the possibility that what you read on Twitter and Facebook doesn't reflect the values of most of your fellow Americans. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Second_Founding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Second_Founding