4 ms·

I mean it sometimes is, and your categorical rejection of it is just weird.

coldtea 6y ago
No, it really isn't. American I presume? You have full rights to use elements of our culture from this here part of Europe (not that you ever asked our permission, you use them anyway. But it's not like we care either...).
- matthewmacleod 6y ago
  No, your presumption is wrong and I'm Scottish. Everybody has the absolute right to use elements of others' cultures – and using them in a disrespectful or exploitative manner is something that I find distasteful and think its reasonable to object to.
  - enriquto 6y ago
    Alright. And people have the right of being distasteful, it's an essential part of freedom of speech.
  - coldtea 6y ago
    How many elements of other cultures do the Scots use everyday? Do the other cultures get a say in whether the Scots use them in a "disrespectful or exploitative manner"?
  - numpad0 6y ago
    Yours is the original idea of cultural appropriation criticism but the way the word is used is to gatekeep “Traditional American Lifestyle” from non-white cultures. The word’s dead.
  - blaser-waffle 6y ago
    Define disrespectful and exploitative. There are some obvious cases that I think no one on HN would argue. But to use an example from above, Adele had a Caribbean-style look, and definitely got press and clicks because of it -- indirect, but definitely profiting. Is that exploitative?
justinclift 6y ago
> I mean it sometimes is Trying to think of an example of it being a problem, but am drawing a blank. Any ideas?
- matthewmacleod 6y ago
  A common example would be profiting from cultural developments or ideas from cultures that had been historically looked down upon or disadvantaged by your own, particularly when doing so in a disrespectful manner. For example – a white European artist designing fabrics and prints with traditionally African patterns, without acknowledging the contribution or involving members of that community, would sit uneasily with me. Using one's inherent advantages to profit from the culture of others who don't have access to the same opportunities is something I object to people doing. This idea in no way prevents people from mixing and incorporating cultural ideas and concepts themselves, or participating in those cultures.
  - funcDropShadow 6y ago
    > A common example would be profiting from cultural developments or ideas from cultures that had been historically looked down upon or disadvantaged by your own, particularly when doing so in a disrespectful manner. I have two problems with your constraint "from cultures that had been historically looked down upon". How far back do we have to look? This might seem obvious between Europe and African countries. But if you look far enough you will find African invaders (Hannibal of Carthago) passing the Alps. I am convinced if you look far enough you will find instances where every culture frowned upon another. So, this criteria is open for interpretation. What is serious enough? How war back do we look? Therefor your constraint "from cultures that had been historically looked down upon" is far from trivial to apply. Secondly, does that mean that I am responsible for the wrong doing of my ancestors? Does the question whether something is morally right if I do it depend on the behavior my ancestors? How far back do we go? Should we send children to prison for the crimes of their parents? Obviously, I am playing devil's advocate, here. But I am strongly against inconsistent standards.
    - 6y ago

No, it really isn't. American I presume? You have full rights to use elements of our culture from this here part of Europe (not that you ever asked our permission, you use them anyway. But it's not like we care either...).

matthewmacleod 6y ago
No, your presumption is wrong and I'm Scottish. Everybody has the absolute right to use elements of others' cultures – and using them in a disrespectful or exploitative manner is something that I find distasteful and think its reasonable to object to.
- enriquto 6y ago
  Alright. And people have the right of being distasteful, it's an essential part of freedom of speech.
- coldtea 6y ago
  How many elements of other cultures do the Scots use everyday? Do the other cultures get a say in whether the Scots use them in a "disrespectful or exploitative manner"?
- numpad0 6y ago
  Yours is the original idea of cultural appropriation criticism but the way the word is used is to gatekeep “Traditional American Lifestyle” from non-white cultures. The word’s dead.
- blaser-waffle 6y ago
  Define disrespectful and exploitative. There are some obvious cases that I think no one on HN would argue. But to use an example from above, Adele had a Caribbean-style look, and definitely got press and clicks because of it -- indirect, but definitely profiting. Is that exploitative?

justinclift 6y ago

> I mean it sometimes is Trying to think of an example of it being a problem, but am drawing a blank. Any ideas?

matthewmacleod 6y ago
A common example would be profiting from cultural developments or ideas from cultures that had been historically looked down upon or disadvantaged by your own, particularly when doing so in a disrespectful manner. For example – a white European artist designing fabrics and prints with traditionally African patterns, without acknowledging the contribution or involving members of that community, would sit uneasily with me. Using one's inherent advantages to profit from the culture of others who don't have access to the same opportunities is something I object to people doing. This idea in no way prevents people from mixing and incorporating cultural ideas and concepts themselves, or participating in those cultures.
- funcDropShadow 6y ago
  > A common example would be profiting from cultural developments or ideas from cultures that had been historically looked down upon or disadvantaged by your own, particularly when doing so in a disrespectful manner. I have two problems with your constraint "from cultures that had been historically looked down upon". How far back do we have to look? This might seem obvious between Europe and African countries. But if you look far enough you will find African invaders (Hannibal of Carthago) passing the Alps. I am convinced if you look far enough you will find instances where every culture frowned upon another. So, this criteria is open for interpretation. What is serious enough? How war back do we look? Therefor your constraint "from cultures that had been historically looked down upon" is far from trivial to apply. Secondly, does that mean that I am responsible for the wrong doing of my ancestors? Does the question whether something is morally right if I do it depend on the behavior my ancestors? How far back do we go? Should we send children to prison for the crimes of their parents? Obviously, I am playing devil's advocate, here. But I am strongly against inconsistent standards.
  - 6y ago