4 ms·

In addition to the entirety of the author's examples and experiences, we need to recall that the UK/British view of race is heavily influenced by the fact that

In addition to the entirety of the author's examples and experiences, we need to recall that the UK/British view of race is heavily influenced by the fact that skin color is not the only way in which folks in the UK experience racial discrimination. For centuries, the Scottish and Irish natives have been variously oppressed by the British, creating a racial context which is distinct from one wholly concerned with skin tone. Not less racist, not more racist, just differently racist.

gambiting 6y ago
Americans also conveniently forget that Irish people have been discriminated against there nearly as badly as black people, despite being the whitest shade of white. From the outside perspective, it seems like that kind of discrimination just doesn't fit the narrative so of course isn't mentioned.
- morelisp 6y ago
  > Americans also conveniently forget that Irish people have been discriminated against there OK. > nearly as badly as black people Nah, fuck off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_slaves_myth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_slaves_myth
subsubsub 6y ago
In the last 10 years have a lot of Scottish, Irish or Black people been murdered by UK police officers? 20 years? 30? I'm sure you can think of a few examples, but the idea that the UK is equally as racist as the US is laughable. To be clear: I am not saying that racism doesn't exist in the UK or that it isn't a problem - but the kind of false equivalence you put forward doesn't really advance the conversation.
- dghf 6y ago
  > In the last 10 years have a lot of Scottish, Irish or Black people been murdered by UK police officers? 20 years? 30? How many people of any colour or ethnicity have been killed by UK police in the last 10, 20, 30 years? It doesn't happen very often, principally because they're not routinely armed. > I'm sure you can think of a few examples, but the idea that the UK is equally as racist as the US is laughable. In some ways, sure. But in other ways, the UK is behind the US: the UK has (and has had) no Black generals, admirals, or supreme court judges, for example.
- johnday 6y ago
  It doesn't quite fall under your "10/20/30", but a lot of Irish and Northern Irish people were killed in The Troubles by British soldiers - a major event which many remember vividly.
dghf 6y ago
> we need to recall that the UK/British view of race is heavily influenced by the fact that skin color is not the only way in which folks in the UK experience racial discrimination. But that's true of lots of places, including the US, antisemitism being the obvious example. > For centuries, the Scottish and Irish natives have been variously oppressed by the British I'm not sure it make sense to talk about Scots being oppressed by the British: Scots are British (though many are not particularly fond of the label). Did you mean to say English?
deleted 6y ago
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eptcyka 6y ago
Would you mind stop overloading the word racist with more definitions? People can be nationalists or biased towards group identities with many different flavors. The underlying issue is that people get discriminated. And besides, the Brits are a very mature ethnic identity, as such, they've had many centuries to come up with and nourish many different ways to discriminate - be it which village you come from, what school you attended, which football/sports club you affiliate with and which side of the street your pub resides on.
- DanBC 6y ago
  > Would you mind stop overloading the word racist with more definitions? Racism has been linked with discrimination against nationality for many years. In the UK the Race Relations Act 1965 (55 years ago) included "national origin".
- nobody9999 6y ago
  >Would you mind stop overloading the word racist with more definitions? People can be nationalists or biased towards group identities with many different flavors. The underlying issue is that people get discriminated. I completely agree. I prefer 'bigotry' rather than 'racism'. Mostly for the reasons you suggest, but also that 'racism' is a nonsensical term in the context of biology. Homo Sapiens is a single species. As such, one could be racist against dolphins or dogs or daffodils, but not humans. But we can still hate and be bigoted against those who don't look or talk or dress or act like "us."
raverbashing 6y ago
Exactly This is why I think the debate on "whitelist" is more about PR and gaining internet points than anything else. It can be argued that the term is racist in an specific historical context (no contest there) and that applied pretty much to the whole American continent, but let's not forget this kind of racism against the Irish was happening in both sides of the pond barely 100 years ago. Associating colors with qualities is much, much older than 500 years.

gambiting 6y ago

Americans also conveniently forget that Irish people have been discriminated against there nearly as badly as black people, despite being the whitest shade of white. From the outside perspective, it seems like that kind of discrimination just doesn't fit the narrative so of course isn't mentioned.

morelisp 6y ago
> Americans also conveniently forget that Irish people have been discriminated against there OK. > nearly as badly as black people Nah, fuck off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_slaves_myth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_slaves_myth

subsubsub 6y ago

In the last 10 years have a lot of Scottish, Irish or Black people been murdered by UK police officers? 20 years? 30? I'm sure you can think of a few examples, but the idea that the UK is equally as racist as the US is laughable. To be clear: I am not saying that racism doesn't exist in the UK or that it isn't a problem - but the kind of false equivalence you put forward doesn't really advance the conversation.

dghf 6y ago
> In the last 10 years have a lot of Scottish, Irish or Black people been murdered by UK police officers? 20 years? 30? How many people of any colour or ethnicity have been killed by UK police in the last 10, 20, 30 years? It doesn't happen very often, principally because they're not routinely armed. > I'm sure you can think of a few examples, but the idea that the UK is equally as racist as the US is laughable. In some ways, sure. But in other ways, the UK is behind the US: the UK has (and has had) no Black generals, admirals, or supreme court judges, for example.
johnday 6y ago
It doesn't quite fall under your "10/20/30", but a lot of Irish and Northern Irish people were killed in The Troubles by British soldiers - a major event which many remember vividly.

dghf 6y ago

> we need to recall that the UK/British view of race is heavily influenced by the fact that skin color is not the only way in which folks in the UK experience racial discrimination. But that's true of lots of places, including the US, antisemitism being the obvious example. > For centuries, the Scottish and Irish natives have been variously oppressed by the British I'm not sure it make sense to talk about Scots being oppressed by the British: Scots are British (though many are not particularly fond of the label). Did you mean to say English?

deleted 6y ago

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eptcyka 6y ago

Would you mind stop overloading the word racist with more definitions? People can be nationalists or biased towards group identities with many different flavors. The underlying issue is that people get discriminated. And besides, the Brits are a very mature ethnic identity, as such, they've had many centuries to come up with and nourish many different ways to discriminate - be it which village you come from, what school you attended, which football/sports club you affiliate with and which side of the street your pub resides on.

DanBC 6y ago
> Would you mind stop overloading the word racist with more definitions? Racism has been linked with discrimination against nationality for many years. In the UK the Race Relations Act 1965 (55 years ago) included "national origin".
nobody9999 6y ago
>Would you mind stop overloading the word racist with more definitions? People can be nationalists or biased towards group identities with many different flavors. The underlying issue is that people get discriminated. I completely agree. I prefer 'bigotry' rather than 'racism'. Mostly for the reasons you suggest, but also that 'racism' is a nonsensical term in the context of biology. Homo Sapiens is a single species. As such, one could be racist against dolphins or dogs or daffodils, but not humans. But we can still hate and be bigoted against those who don't look or talk or dress or act like "us."

raverbashing 6y ago

Exactly This is why I think the debate on "whitelist" is more about PR and gaining internet points than anything else. It can be argued that the term is racist in an specific historical context (no contest there) and that applied pretty much to the whole American continent, but let's not forget this kind of racism against the Irish was happening in both sides of the pond barely 100 years ago. Associating colors with qualities is much, much older than 500 years.