4 ms·

The dialogue here seems foreign to me. Playing a coy game where you realize someone is trying to infer something about you so you dodge the question. It's weird

The dialogue here seems foreign to me. Playing a coy game where you realize someone is trying to infer something about you so you dodge the question. It's weird to imagine that people engage in a cultural dance where you need certainty of arbitrary facts before you decide to act like a dick (oversimplified). But it's really weird to see that there's not overt cultural movements to shed this stuff. Trying to hide the fact that you're a lower caste, in a way, seems to embody the fact that you're a lower caste, shifting it from an outward identity to a hidden identity. Seems like the obvious thing to do is to get ahead of the issue and state that you don't have a caste. Or make up a post modern American one. I get this is hard to do when you're in a position of weakness relative to the other party (like manager's as described). But like, this is clearly a social movement waiting to happen. If someone of equal social standing starts probing you for your caste, you should confront them on it and say you don't subscribe to it, because otherwise you do, on some level, subscribe to it. I won't pretend it's not much, much easier said than done, but geez. Is there really such a collective power by upper indian castes that you can't bring the issue to the table if you're reasonably well established? Say, a second generation citizen, with a multi racial network? Racial discrimination between people of color and whites is a frustratingly stupid problem to deal with. Caste discrimination seems, somehow, even dumber, because based on non-obvious, made up facts. What am I missing?

viraptor 6y ago
> weird to see that there's not overt cultural movements to shed this stuff It takes energy. It brings out aggressive opposition. It may impact people's lives. There needs to be a bigger shift and it can get messy. You can declare yourself free of the stupid discrimination, but then you have to be prepared to be even more publicly discussed and face backlash in private. Most people want to live their lives, not become martyrs. Also if you say "system X is bad" it's close to certain you're not the person who is at the top of system X. By not identifying yourself, you identify yourself as close to the bottom.
- klmadfejno 6y ago
  > Also if you say "system X is bad" it's close to certain you're not the person who is at the top of system X. By not identifying yourself, you identify yourself as close to the bottom. I don't disagree, but it seems like that would happen if you just dodged the questions like the interviewee too. I guess it just sounds to me like getting in the front of the issue would be an effective strategy because a lot of the social stigma around it means the discrimination is supposed to be subtle and unacknowledged.
paloaltokid 6y ago
> The dialogue here seems foreign to me. Playing a coy game where you realize someone is trying to infer something about you so you dodge the question. It's weird to imagine that people engage in a cultural dance where you need certainty of arbitrary facts before you decide to act like a dick (oversimplified). Okay but where are you really from?
- klmadfejno 6y ago
  I'm not sure what you mean to imply here. If you're implying you think I'm Indian and pretending I'm not, well I'm not Indian and I don't follow why you would think that.
  - paloaltokid 6y ago
    I’ll stick my neck out here and say that my assumption is that you’re a white guy like myself. If you don’t know, many non-white people get asked that question all the time. That dance you say you can’t imagine, well, it happens quite frequently.
    - klmadfejno 6y ago
      I don't think that's the same thing. Yes, people do pester others to determine their country of origin, but it's already plainly obvious that the answer is "foreign", or more realistically, "not white". India or Pakistan? Probably doesn't matter for the purposes of internal bias forming. The dialogue being discussed here is about a trait which is not externally evident. It's also a direct question. Where are you really from is more or less directly asking country of origin pre-family immigration however far back that is, which would equate to outright asking someone what their caste is.

viraptor 6y ago

> weird to see that there's not overt cultural movements to shed this stuff It takes energy. It brings out aggressive opposition. It may impact people's lives. There needs to be a bigger shift and it can get messy. You can declare yourself free of the stupid discrimination, but then you have to be prepared to be even more publicly discussed and face backlash in private. Most people want to live their lives, not become martyrs. Also if you say "system X is bad" it's close to certain you're not the person who is at the top of system X. By not identifying yourself, you identify yourself as close to the bottom.

klmadfejno 6y ago
> Also if you say "system X is bad" it's close to certain you're not the person who is at the top of system X. By not identifying yourself, you identify yourself as close to the bottom. I don't disagree, but it seems like that would happen if you just dodged the questions like the interviewee too. I guess it just sounds to me like getting in the front of the issue would be an effective strategy because a lot of the social stigma around it means the discrimination is supposed to be subtle and unacknowledged.

paloaltokid 6y ago

> The dialogue here seems foreign to me. Playing a coy game where you realize someone is trying to infer something about you so you dodge the question. It's weird to imagine that people engage in a cultural dance where you need certainty of arbitrary facts before you decide to act like a dick (oversimplified). Okay but where are you really from?

klmadfejno 6y ago
I'm not sure what you mean to imply here. If you're implying you think I'm Indian and pretending I'm not, well I'm not Indian and I don't follow why you would think that.
- paloaltokid 6y ago
  I’ll stick my neck out here and say that my assumption is that you’re a white guy like myself. If you don’t know, many non-white people get asked that question all the time. That dance you say you can’t imagine, well, it happens quite frequently.
  - klmadfejno 6y ago
    I don't think that's the same thing. Yes, people do pester others to determine their country of origin, but it's already plainly obvious that the answer is "foreign", or more realistically, "not white". India or Pakistan? Probably doesn't matter for the purposes of internal bias forming. The dialogue being discussed here is about a trait which is not externally evident. It's also a direct question. Where are you really from is more or less directly asking country of origin pre-family immigration however far back that is, which would equate to outright asking someone what their caste is.