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I don't know how Stripe's offices are arranged (what sort of work is done where), but it seems strange to me that the bonus to relocate is a fixed amount but th

I don't know how Stripe's offices are arranged (what sort of work is done where), but it seems strange to me that the bonus to relocate is a fixed amount but the adjustment to salary is a percentage. I've got to think well-paid software folks are going to look at the $20k and scoff. I know I'd be underwater on that deal in less than a year. On the other hand, administrative folks, HR, etc ... they might see it as a more appealing deal. I wonder if there's some sort of ulterior motive here for Stripe?

macspoofing 6y ago
The $20k covers relocation costs. Whether or not you'd be 'underwater' depends on cost of living in your new location. San Fran and New York are very expensive.
- triceratops 6y ago
  > The $20k covers relocation costs I didn't read the article and thought it was a bonus. If it's relocation costs, that's an even worse offer than it sounds. The company will probably save that much money in the first 2 months of the employee leaving NYC and the Bay Area. EDIT: I didn't know about the 10% pay cut. That's what I get for not reading the article.
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    Saving $20K in 2 months would be an annualized $120K/year. A 10% pay cut might represent a savings of $25K - $50K/yr. Where's the rest of the savings to the company coming from?
    - triceratops 6y ago
      I didn't know about the 10% pay cut and assumed salaries would be adjusted to the local market. You're right. However, if the employees move to smaller markets they presumably have fewer employment options and less bargaining power in the future. So the company will save money over the long term too.
    - bobthepanda 6y ago
      That's 10% off your current salary. They never say anything about what future raises will look like. It might be possible that you start off at 10% less, but the people in the Bay end up getting higher raises than you do and eventually you lose a lot more than just 10%.
      - sokoloff 6y ago
        Of course. My comment was to share some math around the claim that the company would save the $20K in the first two months, nothing about the long-term.
- scarmig 6y ago
  If it's indeed just a 10% cut, you're likely going to be coming out ahead wherever you move, at least in the short term. In the longer term, it depends on raises. Historically a big cost to moving to work remote in a low cost of living area is receiving much stingier raises indefinitely. I suspect that will continue to be true, though who knows.
  - dodobirdlord 6y ago
    Yea, CA income taxes are in the range of 10%, right? Move to a state without income taxes and you’ve already avoided taking a net salary reduction.
    - gamblor956 6y ago
      Nobody ever stops to ask "why does this state have no income taxes"? And the answer is almost always that if they had an income tax nobody would want to live there.
      - kortilla 6y ago
        That’s a dumb posthoc justification. You’re suggesting nobody would want to live in Washington state if it had income tax yet Oregon has very similar climates and cultures (both in the east and West) with an income tax and people live there.
        Der_Einzige 6y ago
        Oregon also has no sales tax, so real tax burdens between washington and Oregon are extremely similar in practice for most people - same with laws and culture. Norcal, oregon, washington and BC are similar enough culturally that many want them to form their own nation (cascadia)
      - Proziam 6y ago
        As someone who has lived on the east coast, west coast, Sweden, and Germany...I've gotta say I disagree. The best overall quality of life I've experienced has been in Nevada. My money goes farther, the people are less of an obstacle (NIMBY, zoning, traffic, homeless issues, etc), politics is basically a non-factor, and the commute times are measured in minutes instead of hours.
- stale2002 6y ago
  > San Fran and New York are very expensive. Maybe before covid. I am not so sure anymore though. This is anecdotal, but for reference, I am going to save 1k$ a month on rent for my 1 bedroom apartment, when it renews.
  - mlex 6y ago
    As someone who still lives in SF right now, it and NYC are still expensive relative to the rest of the country, even if people are getting better deals on rent at the moment.
  - sushid 6y ago
    Same here. My rent went down by a bit more than $1k when I renewed.
    - lostlogin 6y ago
      Are tenants moving out? Where are they going? Obviously many will be finding it harder to pay, but that alone surely hasn’t caused this large of a drop? I’m very remote from this situation so please excuse my ignorance.
      - sushid 6y ago
        Yes they're moving out. I know for a fact that the complex isn't even posting all of their vacancies as my friend's now-empty unit has never been listed. I don't know how this will play out in the long term but lots of my teammates at work (3/18) have moved out of the Bay Area, at least for the short term. Many of my friends moved back to their hometown to be near their parents as well. It's much cheaper and probably a once in a lifetime chance to really interact with your parents daily after college.
  - DavidPeiffer 6y ago
    You're saving 1k/month, but out of curiosity, what is the total rent? In 2016 I lived in adequately nice 2 bedroom, 1.5 bathroom apartment in Ames, IA (home of Iowa State University) for $820/month before splitting with my roommate. Internet, cable, and water were included. The highest end apartments I heard of in town were ~800/month per tenant in 4 bedroom swanky apartments right across the street from the university. Obviously total comp can more than offset cost of living differences, but the difference in cost continually blow my mind.
Hydraulix989 6y ago
Not only that, would you really want to relocate away from where the jobs and opportunities are for advancement in your field?
- rebelos 6y ago
  This raises the rather provocative question of whether Stripe expects better retention in addition to lower labor costs by pushing talent out to less competitive locales.
ogre_codes 6y ago
> I've got to think well-paid software folks are going to look at the $20k and scoff. I know I'd be underwater on that deal in less than a year. It's a reasonable deal. Just removing the need to drive into SF 4-5 days a week is worth 10% of most people's paycheck. You'd only be underwater in terms of the top-line, once you consider expenses and time lost to commuting, you come out way ahead even without the $20k for relocating.
ffggvv 6y ago
the cut is only for salary. the majority of comp at stripe is stock. so someone making 400k total comp may only make 160k in salary and so the cut would be 16k. (4% of total comp) But california state income tax is also 10% so it could cancel out.

macspoofing 6y ago

The $20k covers relocation costs. Whether or not you'd be 'underwater' depends on cost of living in your new location. San Fran and New York are very expensive.

triceratops 6y ago
> The $20k covers relocation costs I didn't read the article and thought it was a bonus. If it's relocation costs, that's an even worse offer than it sounds. The company will probably save that much money in the first 2 months of the employee leaving NYC and the Bay Area. EDIT: I didn't know about the 10% pay cut. That's what I get for not reading the article.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  Saving $20K in 2 months would be an annualized $120K/year. A 10% pay cut might represent a savings of $25K - $50K/yr. Where's the rest of the savings to the company coming from?
  - triceratops 6y ago
    I didn't know about the 10% pay cut and assumed salaries would be adjusted to the local market. You're right. However, if the employees move to smaller markets they presumably have fewer employment options and less bargaining power in the future. So the company will save money over the long term too.
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    That's 10% off your current salary. They never say anything about what future raises will look like. It might be possible that you start off at 10% less, but the people in the Bay end up getting higher raises than you do and eventually you lose a lot more than just 10%.
    - sokoloff 6y ago
      Of course. My comment was to share some math around the claim that the company would save the $20K in the first two months, nothing about the long-term.
scarmig 6y ago
If it's indeed just a 10% cut, you're likely going to be coming out ahead wherever you move, at least in the short term. In the longer term, it depends on raises. Historically a big cost to moving to work remote in a low cost of living area is receiving much stingier raises indefinitely. I suspect that will continue to be true, though who knows.
- dodobirdlord 6y ago
  Yea, CA income taxes are in the range of 10%, right? Move to a state without income taxes and you’ve already avoided taking a net salary reduction.
  - gamblor956 6y ago
    Nobody ever stops to ask "why does this state have no income taxes"? And the answer is almost always that if they had an income tax nobody would want to live there.
    - kortilla 6y ago
      That’s a dumb posthoc justification. You’re suggesting nobody would want to live in Washington state if it had income tax yet Oregon has very similar climates and cultures (both in the east and West) with an income tax and people live there.
      - Der_Einzige 6y ago
        Oregon also has no sales tax, so real tax burdens between washington and Oregon are extremely similar in practice for most people - same with laws and culture. Norcal, oregon, washington and BC are similar enough culturally that many want them to form their own nation (cascadia)
    - Proziam 6y ago
      As someone who has lived on the east coast, west coast, Sweden, and Germany...I've gotta say I disagree. The best overall quality of life I've experienced has been in Nevada. My money goes farther, the people are less of an obstacle (NIMBY, zoning, traffic, homeless issues, etc), politics is basically a non-factor, and the commute times are measured in minutes instead of hours.
stale2002 6y ago
> San Fran and New York are very expensive. Maybe before covid. I am not so sure anymore though. This is anecdotal, but for reference, I am going to save 1k$ a month on rent for my 1 bedroom apartment, when it renews.
- mlex 6y ago
  As someone who still lives in SF right now, it and NYC are still expensive relative to the rest of the country, even if people are getting better deals on rent at the moment.
- sushid 6y ago
  Same here. My rent went down by a bit more than $1k when I renewed.
  - lostlogin 6y ago
    Are tenants moving out? Where are they going? Obviously many will be finding it harder to pay, but that alone surely hasn’t caused this large of a drop? I’m very remote from this situation so please excuse my ignorance.
    - sushid 6y ago
      Yes they're moving out. I know for a fact that the complex isn't even posting all of their vacancies as my friend's now-empty unit has never been listed. I don't know how this will play out in the long term but lots of my teammates at work (3/18) have moved out of the Bay Area, at least for the short term. Many of my friends moved back to their hometown to be near their parents as well. It's much cheaper and probably a once in a lifetime chance to really interact with your parents daily after college.
- DavidPeiffer 6y ago
  You're saving 1k/month, but out of curiosity, what is the total rent? In 2016 I lived in adequately nice 2 bedroom, 1.5 bathroom apartment in Ames, IA (home of Iowa State University) for $820/month before splitting with my roommate. Internet, cable, and water were included. The highest end apartments I heard of in town were ~800/month per tenant in 4 bedroom swanky apartments right across the street from the university. Obviously total comp can more than offset cost of living differences, but the difference in cost continually blow my mind.

Hydraulix989 6y ago

Not only that, would you really want to relocate away from where the jobs and opportunities are for advancement in your field?

rebelos 6y ago
This raises the rather provocative question of whether Stripe expects better retention in addition to lower labor costs by pushing talent out to less competitive locales.

ogre_codes 6y ago

> I've got to think well-paid software folks are going to look at the $20k and scoff. I know I'd be underwater on that deal in less than a year. It's a reasonable deal. Just removing the need to drive into SF 4-5 days a week is worth 10% of most people's paycheck. You'd only be underwater in terms of the top-line, once you consider expenses and time lost to commuting, you come out way ahead even without the $20k for relocating.

ffggvv 6y ago

the cut is only for salary. the majority of comp at stripe is stock. so someone making 400k total comp may only make 160k in salary and so the cut would be 16k. (4% of total comp) But california state income tax is also 10% so it could cancel out.