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>The true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members. - Ghandi

by Dahoon 6y ago

vector_spaces 6y ago
Not to disparage this sentiment, but > Ours is one continual struggle against a degradation sought to be inflicted upon us by the Europeans, who desire to degrade us to the level of the raw Kaffir whose occupation is hunting, and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with and, then, pass his life in indolence and nakedness. - Gandhi (Kaffir was a slur used against black South Africans more or less equivalent to the n-word)
- arolihas 6y ago
  What was the purpose of sharing that quote then, if not to disparage the sentiment? To disparage whoever said it? Do you know when that quote was made, as Gandhi’s views (which were a product of his time and upbringing) evolved over the span of his life?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - vector_spaces 6y ago
    My point was that figures like Gandhi are idolized in the West through tired, decontextualized quotes like the one above, and the result is that they are (popularly) effectively above reproach. The result is an ahistorical understanding of a complicated person who held a number of views (at various points in his life, although there's little evidence to support that his thinking on this particular topic evolved much over the course of his life) and engaged in behaviours that few would disagree were completely reprehensible. Speaking of ahistoricism, I don't understand your point that his views were "a product of his time". Firstly, not everyone in his time held them, and more importantly, applying that logic one could dismiss pretty much any atrocity as "a product of its time".
    - arolihas 6y ago
      Is it not a good quote then? Is there nothing to learn from Gandhi if every time he is brought up we have to bring up his opinions he held in his early twenties. Of course not everyone held them but most British educated lawyers in South Africa did. His racist opinion he held at one point in his life has nothing to do with his later quote nor does it have anything to do with the original thread at all speaking. You’re the one bringing a decontextualized quote that isn’t adding anything but to shit on Gandhi. Yes he isn’t perfect, we know that. But surely we don’t have to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
- pavlov 6y ago
  Goes to show that nobody is beyond prejudice. Even Gandhi needed to evolve his views to understand his fellow humans, so it would be dangerous to assume things like "racism in America is past" or "diversity training is useless". We all need to work on this stuff.

>The true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members. - Ghandi

by Dahoon 6y ago

>The true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members. - Ghandi

Not to disparage this sentiment, but > Ours is one continual struggle against a degradation sought to be inflicted upon us by the Europeans, who desire to degrade us to the level of the raw Kaffir whose occupation is hunting, and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with and, then, pass his life in indolence and nakedness. - Gandhi (Kaffir was a slur used against black South Africans more or less equivalent to the n-word)

arolihas 6y ago
What was the purpose of sharing that quote then, if not to disparage the sentiment? To disparage whoever said it? Do you know when that quote was made, as Gandhi’s views (which were a product of his time and upbringing) evolved over the span of his life?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- vector_spaces 6y ago
  My point was that figures like Gandhi are idolized in the West through tired, decontextualized quotes like the one above, and the result is that they are (popularly) effectively above reproach. The result is an ahistorical understanding of a complicated person who held a number of views (at various points in his life, although there's little evidence to support that his thinking on this particular topic evolved much over the course of his life) and engaged in behaviours that few would disagree were completely reprehensible. Speaking of ahistoricism, I don't understand your point that his views were "a product of his time". Firstly, not everyone in his time held them, and more importantly, applying that logic one could dismiss pretty much any atrocity as "a product of its time".
  - arolihas 6y ago
    Is it not a good quote then? Is there nothing to learn from Gandhi if every time he is brought up we have to bring up his opinions he held in his early twenties. Of course not everyone held them but most British educated lawyers in South Africa did. His racist opinion he held at one point in his life has nothing to do with his later quote nor does it have anything to do with the original thread at all speaking. You’re the one bringing a decontextualized quote that isn’t adding anything but to shit on Gandhi. Yes he isn’t perfect, we know that. But surely we don’t have to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
pavlov 6y ago
Goes to show that nobody is beyond prejudice. Even Gandhi needed to evolve his views to understand his fellow humans, so it would be dangerous to assume things like "racism in America is past" or "diversity training is useless". We all need to work on this stuff.