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America Is About to Enter Its Years of Lead

28 points by AndrewBissell 6y ago

AndrewBissell 6y ago
It's strange that this article makes reference to the "strategy of tension" in Italy without any mention of CIA and NATO involvement in Gladio (which the Italian government itself acknowledged).
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- ip26 6y ago
  In the classic model, the strategy of tension was associated with Cold War covert action and CIA interference in our allies’ domestic politics. After World War II, Western intelligence agencies really did organize “stay-behind networks”... -- TFA
  - AndrewBissell 6y ago
    Ah! Just missed that on my first read through and thought this was the only mention, thanks. > The CIA did put its hands on the scale in the elections like Italy in 1948, when left-wing parties were portrayed as Soviet puppets and systemically kept out of a coalition government.
aazaa 6y ago
> Virtually every member of the Western Alliance has had its own years of lead, not only Italy but Britain during The Troubles in Northern Ireland, France as it tried to cling to Algeria and was targeted by its own paramilitary terror campaign, South America in the years of Operation Condor, Mexico’s Dirty War, and so on. America is no exception. The country has been here several times before: Bleeding Kansas during the 1850s, when slave-owners and abolitionists faced off in murderous confrontations; the birth of the first Klan after the Civil War to resist Radical Reconstruction; and the wave of violence that accompanied the rise of the Third Klan during the civil rights movement. Elements of the left from John Brown to the Italian Red Brigades have also pursued violent accelerationist campaigns in pursuit of social change. But only the reactionaries have enjoyed approval from more mainstream sources of political power. Often, they got logistical support as well as material and legal cover from security services. Checks Wikipedia for Operation Condor... > Operation Condor (Spanish: Operación Cóndor ... was a United States-backed campaign of political repression and state terror involving intelligence operations and assassination of opponents, officially and formally implemented in November 1975 by the right-wing dictatorships of the Southern Cone of South America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor Then checks Wikipedia for Mexico's Dirty War: > The Mexican Dirty War ... refers to the Mexican theater of the Cold War, an internal conflict in the 1960s and 1970s between the Mexican PRI-ruled government under the presidencies of Gustavo Díaz Ordaz, Luis Echeverría and José López Portillo, which were backed by the US government, and left-wing student and guerrilla groups. During the war, government forces carried out disappearances, estimated at 1,200, systematic torture, and "probable extrajudicial executions". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Dirty_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Dirty_War US intelligence agencies insisted that mass surveillance was not directed at US citizens within US borders. Then we found out differently. In a similar way, I think many people in the US could turn a blind eye to the crimes being committed abroad in the name of the Cold War. What goes around comes around.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- rbg246 6y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in... There are quite a few when you see them listed out (looking at cold war era overthrows).
- mleonhard 6y ago
  > What goes around comes around. Unfortunately, it comes around indiscriminately. The young had nothing to do with USA's earlier crimes.
iandanforth 6y ago
"Lead" here is /lɛd/ and refers to bullets and bombs. Yay heteronyms!
- opwieurposiu 6y ago
  Bombs typically have cast iron or steel casings. WW1 Shrapnel shells were the last "bombs" to commonly use lead.
  - EdwardDiego 6y ago
    I'm presuming that he was referring to the IEDs of Italy's "Years of Lead" referenced directly in the article. Not specifics about weapons manufacture.
jupp0r 6y ago
It's hard to prosecute these militia groups before they are actually crossing the line to do something illegal. On the other hand, wouldn't it be funny if all the vague post-911 anti terrorism legislation was applied to them?
youeseh 6y ago
In those earlier examples, didn't conservatives make up the majority?
Udik 6y ago
Just to make a minor point clear, since it seems the article is a bit vague about it: in the "years of lead" in Italy it was mostly the far left that was engaging in terrorism and political violence. Just one sentence that seems a bit cavalier with history: "... the Italian Red Brigades have also pursued violent accelerationist campaigns in pursuit of social change." The Italian Red Brigades have kidnapped, kept prisoner for 2.5 months, subjected to a mock trial and finally executed the president of Italy's relative majority party of the time, the Christian Democrats. The body was left in the trunk of a parked car. You may call it a "violent accelerationist campaign in pursuit of social change", if you will.
- AndrewBissell 6y ago
  You may need to catch up on the news a bit, Steve Pieczenik of the U.S. State Department (common cover for CIA) admitted that he killed Aldo Moro to prevent him from divulging state secrets. https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/italy-accuses-us-envoy-steve-pieczenik-aldo-moro-murder-1474527 https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/italy-accuses-us-envoy-steve-piecz... I would imagine some of those secrets may have had to do with other incidents where the Red Brigade and other left wing groups were framed in false flag incidents as part of the Gladio strategy of tension. It's maybe noteworthy that the same Steve Pieczenik was pushing a larval version of the QAnon "deep state patriot" narrative in the leadup to the 2016 election: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov5kvWSz5LM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov5kvWSz5LM
  - Udik 6y ago
    Ah, we have no shortage in Italy of people who claim to have been the kingpin of this or that plot central to the history of the nation. Whatever Pieczenik might have said there are most probably others who gave a different version (Italy's very outspoken president Cossiga, for example). Anyway, those who materially organised the kidnapping and executed the victim were communist militants- fighting against the... "imperialist state of the multi-national companies". Oh well. Maybe they were just 40 years ahead of their time :).
    - AndrewBissell 6y ago
RickJWagner 6y ago
Left-side Antifa, Right-side counter-clowns. Both need to be stopped. Heavy sentences need to be handed down, leads followed up, root sourced identified. It's not a coincidence all this happens in the election year.

28 points by AndrewBissell 6y ago

It's strange that this article makes reference to the "strategy of tension" in Italy without any mention of CIA and NATO involvement in Gladio (which the Italian government itself acknowledged).

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ip26 6y ago
In the classic model, the strategy of tension was associated with Cold War covert action and CIA interference in our allies’ domestic politics. After World War II, Western intelligence agencies really did organize “stay-behind networks”... -- TFA
- AndrewBissell 6y ago
  Ah! Just missed that on my first read through and thought this was the only mention, thanks. > The CIA did put its hands on the scale in the elections like Italy in 1948, when left-wing parties were portrayed as Soviet puppets and systemically kept out of a coalition government.

aazaa 6y ago

> Virtually every member of the Western Alliance has had its own years of lead, not only Italy but Britain during The Troubles in Northern Ireland, France as it tried to cling to Algeria and was targeted by its own paramilitary terror campaign, South America in the years of Operation Condor, Mexico’s Dirty War, and so on. America is no exception. The country has been here several times before: Bleeding Kansas during the 1850s, when slave-owners and abolitionists faced off in murderous confrontations; the birth of the first Klan after the Civil War to resist Radical Reconstruction; and the wave of violence that accompanied the rise of the Third Klan during the civil rights movement. Elements of the left from John Brown to the Italian Red Brigades have also pursued violent accelerationist campaigns in pursuit of social change. But only the reactionaries have enjoyed approval from more mainstream sources of political power. Often, they got logistical support as well as material and legal cover from security services. Checks Wikipedia for Operation Condor... > Operation Condor (Spanish: Operación Cóndor ... was a United States-backed campaign of political repression and state terror involving intelligence operations and assassination of opponents, officially and formally implemented in November 1975 by the right-wing dictatorships of the Southern Cone of South America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor Then checks Wikipedia for Mexico's Dirty War: > The Mexican Dirty War ... refers to the Mexican theater of the Cold War, an internal conflict in the 1960s and 1970s between the Mexican PRI-ruled government under the presidencies of Gustavo Díaz Ordaz, Luis Echeverría and José López Portillo, which were backed by the US government, and left-wing student and guerrilla groups. During the war, government forces carried out disappearances, estimated at 1,200, systematic torture, and "probable extrajudicial executions". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Dirty_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Dirty_War US intelligence agencies insisted that mass surveillance was not directed at US citizens within US borders. Then we found out differently. In a similar way, I think many people in the US could turn a blind eye to the crimes being committed abroad in the name of the Cold War. What goes around comes around.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
rbg246 6y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in... There are quite a few when you see them listed out (looking at cold war era overthrows).
mleonhard 6y ago
> What goes around comes around. Unfortunately, it comes around indiscriminately. The young had nothing to do with USA's earlier crimes.

iandanforth 6y ago

"Lead" here is /lɛd/ and refers to bullets and bombs. Yay heteronyms!

opwieurposiu 6y ago
Bombs typically have cast iron or steel casings. WW1 Shrapnel shells were the last "bombs" to commonly use lead.
- EdwardDiego 6y ago
  I'm presuming that he was referring to the IEDs of Italy's "Years of Lead" referenced directly in the article. Not specifics about weapons manufacture.

jupp0r 6y ago

It's hard to prosecute these militia groups before they are actually crossing the line to do something illegal. On the other hand, wouldn't it be funny if all the vague post-911 anti terrorism legislation was applied to them?

youeseh 6y ago

In those earlier examples, didn't conservatives make up the majority?

Udik 6y ago

Just to make a minor point clear, since it seems the article is a bit vague about it: in the "years of lead" in Italy it was mostly the far left that was engaging in terrorism and political violence. Just one sentence that seems a bit cavalier with history: "... the Italian Red Brigades have also pursued violent accelerationist campaigns in pursuit of social change." The Italian Red Brigades have kidnapped, kept prisoner for 2.5 months, subjected to a mock trial and finally executed the president of Italy's relative majority party of the time, the Christian Democrats. The body was left in the trunk of a parked car. You may call it a "violent accelerationist campaign in pursuit of social change", if you will.

AndrewBissell 6y ago
You may need to catch up on the news a bit, Steve Pieczenik of the U.S. State Department (common cover for CIA) admitted that he killed Aldo Moro to prevent him from divulging state secrets. https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/italy-accuses-us-envoy-steve-pieczenik-aldo-moro-murder-1474527 https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/italy-accuses-us-envoy-steve-piecz... I would imagine some of those secrets may have had to do with other incidents where the Red Brigade and other left wing groups were framed in false flag incidents as part of the Gladio strategy of tension. It's maybe noteworthy that the same Steve Pieczenik was pushing a larval version of the QAnon "deep state patriot" narrative in the leadup to the 2016 election: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov5kvWSz5LM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov5kvWSz5LM
- Udik 6y ago
  Ah, we have no shortage in Italy of people who claim to have been the kingpin of this or that plot central to the history of the nation. Whatever Pieczenik might have said there are most probably others who gave a different version (Italy's very outspoken president Cossiga, for example). Anyway, those who materially organised the kidnapping and executed the victim were communist militants- fighting against the... "imperialist state of the multi-national companies". Oh well. Maybe they were just 40 years ahead of their time :).
  - AndrewBissell 6y ago

RickJWagner 6y ago

Left-side Antifa, Right-side counter-clowns. Both need to be stopped. Heavy sentences need to be handed down, leads followed up, root sourced identified. It's not a coincidence all this happens in the election year.