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I hope I'm not the only one that finds this completely ridiculous. What right does the U.S. Federal Government have to prosecute people who aren't even operatin

by Qasaur 6y ago

I hope I'm not the only one that finds this completely ridiculous. What right does the U.S. Federal Government have to prosecute people who aren't even operating within their jurisdiction? This is nothing but imperialism and a captured government trying to shut down competitors to U.S.-based regulated exchanges from more crypto-friendly countries.

csomar 6y ago
US imperialism is not new news.
317070 6y ago
Apparently, they are of the opinion that Bitmex did operate in the US: > With the opportunities and advantages of operating a financial institution in the United States comes the obligation for those businesses to do their part to help in driving out crime and corruption.
- roywiggins 6y ago
  According to the indictment they had an office in Manhattan.
vmception 6y ago
captured government lmao this is pretty default behavior for the US everything anyone told you about the US dollar use being needed to establish jurisdiction was a lie, I have literally only heard that from crypto people, arent these the same people that used to say “litecoin is asic proof because its memory hard” lmao right, not new news. The criminal charges are around the Bank Secrecy Act and Conspiracy to circumvent some Bank Secrecy Act requirements What right? Its not a right its a privilege the US has that most countries around the world will listen to it. Many countries have laws to exercise jurisdiction outside of their borders, they’re just irrelevant. They are irrelevant markets, irrelevant geopolitically, have no resources to pursue or even bother charging people, faces actual consequences from trading partners if they did try, everything is distinctly opposite for the US.
- ciarannolan 6y ago
  They had an office in Manhattan and customers in the US. https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press-release/file/1323316/download https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press-release/file/1323316... (Page 8)
  - vmception 6y ago
    > But please, expand on the "America bad" argument you were making. Very interesting stuff. It wasn't an America bad argument, it was a global hegemony acknowledgement. How do you read me talking about how almost everywhere is literally "irrelevant", my words, by all metrics and get an "America bad" argument out of it? Could have just left that out.
    - ciarannolan 6y ago
      I removed it from my comment (probably as you were writing) because you're right, it's lame and doesn't belong on HN. My apologies.
roywiggins 6y ago
Ed: From the indictment, page 8: "BitMEX personnel... conducted BitMEX operations from an office in Manhattan, New York, including but not limited to customer support, business development, and marketing, involving customers located in the United States and elsewhere ." If[0] they posted on American forums or solicited customers on American-hosted sites, they operated in the US for the purposes of the law. You don't have to physically be somewhere to be subject to the law there. Ditto wire and mail fraud that originates overseas. Mailing a pipebomb from Canada to the US is illegal in Canada, but it's also illegal in the US, even if it was done by a Canadian citizen who didn't step foot here. Operating outside American AML/KYC law is not quite the same as mailing a pipe bomb, but the jurisdictional issue is hard to distinguish. [0] (this remains to be proven)
dragonwriter 6y ago
> What right does the U.S. Federal Government have to prosecute people who aren't even operating within their jurisdiction? The jurisdiction of any sovereign state is whatever that state says it's jurisdiction is; extraterritorial jurisdiction is not at all uncommon. In order for an entity to have externally-imposed limits on its jurisdiction, it would have to be answerable to a superior soveriegnty (which would itself either be or be answerable to, perhaps through more layers, an entity without such limitation.)
- roywiggins 6y ago
  Jurisdiction here is easy: they had an office in Manhattan...
ciarannolan 6y ago
> What right does the U.S. Federal Government have to prosecute people who aren't even operating within their jurisdiction? Besides the office in Manhattan, I'm sure you mean? https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press-release/file/1323316/download https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press-release/file/1323316... Page 8.
splintercell 6y ago
America is the one world govt, it created this world order we live in, it provide(d) protection and unmolested trade routes to everyone in the world. Hell US even protected Vietnam's trade during the Vietnam War, no country in the world has done that in past. Of course that world order is coming down fast because nobody in the US cares about maintaining it as much as they are interested in proclaiming it.
- Oricle 6y ago
  Well, almost. Your right America was created by the powers that be, when they told Christopher Columb as to take them lands no matter the cost (95% of the people killed). England has Ben owned and controlled for 100's of years by these people in a war that's well, 2020 years old. Follow the money, follow who owns, controls everything either directly, or indirectly through 'criminal goyhim'. This one world order you talk about wasn't thought of or created in America, it dominates the whole world and that's why nations (which is what goyhim translates to) can't fight back or defend themselves against this world power. Those you are not allowed to critise! Developed country = indoctrinated country UN-developed country = un-indoctrinated country You'll find that all white countries are indoctrinated and had forced foreigners In them to disperse and destroy white and Christian beliefs. Alot don't even understand Christianity is just another form of Judaism when jesus, king of the isralites, sent out 12 opposiles to teach the gentiles (non jew) teaching they kept to themselves ruling with an iron fist from pre 2000bc to 0AD. Hell,its illegal to be Christian! And by 2060 most white countries will be minorities in their own country which is when all our women will be nothing more than cum buckets for the powers that be. Yup, literally all the world's problems are caused by these sick fucks who have been manipulating everything for 100's of years lol Reason they been kicked out of 200+ countries in the past! America was always created for its purpose today, degeneracy, and these fucks are pushing gay/trans mental illness. 85% suicide attempt rape in trans and murder rate by trans are insane!!but apparently they are OK! Every fucking time! Hell, modern Jews arnt even isralites, they are Turkish lol. Explains their obsession over currency had they and the Chinese came up with it!
bb88 6y ago
So that was the view of a pre-9/11 world. Post 9/11 we learned that terrorist organizations can plot and fund crimes against the US from overseas. The best way to stop terrorists are with their funding. Stop the funding and they wither on the vine.

by Qasaur 6y ago

csomar 6y ago

US imperialism is not new news.

317070 6y ago

Apparently, they are of the opinion that Bitmex did operate in the US: > With the opportunities and advantages of operating a financial institution in the United States comes the obligation for those businesses to do their part to help in driving out crime and corruption.

roywiggins 6y ago
According to the indictment they had an office in Manhattan.

vmception 6y ago

captured government lmao this is pretty default behavior for the US everything anyone told you about the US dollar use being needed to establish jurisdiction was a lie, I have literally only heard that from crypto people, arent these the same people that used to say “litecoin is asic proof because its memory hard” lmao right, not new news. The criminal charges are around the Bank Secrecy Act and Conspiracy to circumvent some Bank Secrecy Act requirements What right? Its not a right its a privilege the US has that most countries around the world will listen to it. Many countries have laws to exercise jurisdiction outside of their borders, they’re just irrelevant. They are irrelevant markets, irrelevant geopolitically, have no resources to pursue or even bother charging people, faces actual consequences from trading partners if they did try, everything is distinctly opposite for the US.

ciarannolan 6y ago
They had an office in Manhattan and customers in the US. https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press-release/file/1323316/download https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press-release/file/1323316... (Page 8)
- vmception 6y ago
  > But please, expand on the "America bad" argument you were making. Very interesting stuff. It wasn't an America bad argument, it was a global hegemony acknowledgement. How do you read me talking about how almost everywhere is literally "irrelevant", my words, by all metrics and get an "America bad" argument out of it? Could have just left that out.
  - ciarannolan 6y ago
    I removed it from my comment (probably as you were writing) because you're right, it's lame and doesn't belong on HN. My apologies.

roywiggins 6y ago

Ed: From the indictment, page 8: "BitMEX personnel... conducted BitMEX operations from an office in Manhattan, New York, including but not limited to customer support, business development, and marketing, involving customers located in the United States and elsewhere ." If[0] they posted on American forums or solicited customers on American-hosted sites, they operated in the US for the purposes of the law. You don't have to physically be somewhere to be subject to the law there. Ditto wire and mail fraud that originates overseas. Mailing a pipebomb from Canada to the US is illegal in Canada, but it's also illegal in the US, even if it was done by a Canadian citizen who didn't step foot here. Operating outside American AML/KYC law is not quite the same as mailing a pipe bomb, but the jurisdictional issue is hard to distinguish. [0] (this remains to be proven)

dragonwriter 6y ago

> What right does the U.S. Federal Government have to prosecute people who aren't even operating within their jurisdiction? The jurisdiction of any sovereign state is whatever that state says it's jurisdiction is; extraterritorial jurisdiction is not at all uncommon. In order for an entity to have externally-imposed limits on its jurisdiction, it would have to be answerable to a superior soveriegnty (which would itself either be or be answerable to, perhaps through more layers, an entity without such limitation.)

roywiggins 6y ago
Jurisdiction here is easy: they had an office in Manhattan...

ciarannolan 6y ago

> What right does the U.S. Federal Government have to prosecute people who aren't even operating within their jurisdiction? Besides the office in Manhattan, I'm sure you mean? https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press-release/file/1323316/download https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press-release/file/1323316... Page 8.

splintercell 6y ago

America is the one world govt, it created this world order we live in, it provide(d) protection and unmolested trade routes to everyone in the world. Hell US even protected Vietnam's trade during the Vietnam War, no country in the world has done that in past. Of course that world order is coming down fast because nobody in the US cares about maintaining it as much as they are interested in proclaiming it.

Oricle 6y ago
Well, almost. Your right America was created by the powers that be, when they told Christopher Columb as to take them lands no matter the cost (95% of the people killed). England has Ben owned and controlled for 100's of years by these people in a war that's well, 2020 years old. Follow the money, follow who owns, controls everything either directly, or indirectly through 'criminal goyhim'. This one world order you talk about wasn't thought of or created in America, it dominates the whole world and that's why nations (which is what goyhim translates to) can't fight back or defend themselves against this world power. Those you are not allowed to critise! Developed country = indoctrinated country UN-developed country = un-indoctrinated country You'll find that all white countries are indoctrinated and had forced foreigners In them to disperse and destroy white and Christian beliefs. Alot don't even understand Christianity is just another form of Judaism when jesus, king of the isralites, sent out 12 opposiles to teach the gentiles (non jew) teaching they kept to themselves ruling with an iron fist from pre 2000bc to 0AD. Hell,its illegal to be Christian! And by 2060 most white countries will be minorities in their own country which is when all our women will be nothing more than cum buckets for the powers that be. Yup, literally all the world's problems are caused by these sick fucks who have been manipulating everything for 100's of years lol Reason they been kicked out of 200+ countries in the past! America was always created for its purpose today, degeneracy, and these fucks are pushing gay/trans mental illness. 85% suicide attempt rape in trans and murder rate by trans are insane!!but apparently they are OK! Every fucking time! Hell, modern Jews arnt even isralites, they are Turkish lol. Explains their obsession over currency had they and the Chinese came up with it!

bb88 6y ago

So that was the view of a pre-9/11 world. Post 9/11 we learned that terrorist organizations can plot and fund crimes against the US from overseas. The best way to stop terrorists are with their funding. Stop the funding and they wither on the vine.