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I am fighting this. I was given requirements to implement fraud and I said no. They gave it to a contractor. I said roll it back. They said no. I reported it up

I am fighting this. I was given requirements to implement fraud and I said no. They gave it to a contractor. I said roll it back. They said no. I reported it up. They constructively dismissed me. I continued to report it up to the most sr. lawyer in the organization. They retaliated. So I reported it to government agencies and am waiting on a response. We are the ones who are doing these things. Us. The engineers. We have a responsibility to the people. We are derelict in our duty. We have to stop writing the code that is destroying the world. We have to hold our employers accountable. We are the only ones who can stop this. Sit. on. your. hands. Stop destroying people's minds and lives with your code. YOU are doing it. YOU. The people who work at facebook and google and ad networks and content farms and high frequency traders and weapons manufacturers and climate changing organizations. It's us. We are the engineers. We are the ones with the power. It's up to us. The world is dying because of us. It's not the business people making the profits. They aren't doing it. WE are.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
gabereiser 6y ago
cheers! I've been saying this for a decade. What's really really hard is getting people to put ethics ahead of self, ahead of their paycheck and livelihood. Like the OP mentions, they likely just give it to a contractor (or outsource the entire project). We should be making technology for the betterment of man. Even reinventing the wheel to tackle shortcomings in markets and fixing fraud, not creating it. If there's an unfair advantage, we, engineers, need to make it fair. I learned to code because the grandfathers of the web decided to share their knowledge for free. I landed my first job because someone decided to take me under their wing and teach me more. I too, was asked to design and build a high frequency trading system that was designed to be fraudulent by default. I decided to walk away. I focus my career on solving mankind problems. Whether it's travel waste, roofing waste, energy waste or optimizations, solutions for reducing energy consumption via optimal cloud architectures, and designing scale system on as little footprint (carbon included) as possible. I'm against cryptocurrencies requiring so much energy to mine. It's killing our planet. We need to find a better way. Time based auto-token so long as you are able to capture the packet? I don't know... But we, humans, need to find sustainable ways to keep our machines and our society moving forward. I will never write code that gives an organization an unfair advantage over others or is fraud or "shady". I have no problem walking away, conscience clean. I can always get another job. Yes, some may end up implementing it anyway. Some would say "What about patents?" etc etc. A free market should be a fair market, otherwise it isn't free.
mushbino 6y ago
In this regard, I often think this is where a union or guild or something along those lines would be helpful. I've studied labor history extensively so I'm familiar with all of the downsides to a union. Some sort of collectivisation is needed to have support and collective input in cases such as this. The ones building it should have a voice. A single engineer putting their foot down is brave, but thousands putting their collective feet down can change the world.
- dantheman 6y ago
  Yeah, it's great when police unions fight against reducing sentences. We are in positions of privilege; we should build funds/organizations to protect and help whistleblowers; help them find jobs, have a fund to support them -- we don't need a union for this.
  - bourgwaletariat 6y ago
    Well, here I am. Whistleblowing. Unemployed. Nothing and no one to support me. Suffering from C-PTSD every day. Unable to sleep at night, because I may be murdered for reporting a potential billion-dollar money laundering scheme. Fearing to even write this, but I feel compelled to, because I have nothing else. I've gone days without sleep. Woken up afraid for my life. My future. Knowing I may never work again. I may never be employed again. I may be on the street. Homeless. Unable to trust anyone ever again. There's no one. No one. Do you understand that? I'd happily have a union to protect me right now. My life may be over because there isn't one. What about people who want to do the right thing and so they are crushed by evil? Do you know how much literature there is out there about blowing the whistle? Do you know how many people are in prison right now for it? Being tortured every day. Julian Assange. Chelsea Manning. Karen Silkwood was poisoned and probably murdered and she was a leader in a union. What about them? Who is protecting them? Who protected them? No one. They are going to live a life of torture and die in prison because of the truth. Who is protecting the truth? Who is enabling the truth to exist? I spoke up and had to do it, I had to, I couldn't not do it, despite the very real threat that I might be murdered in my sleep. I can't stand to see this happening around me every day. I can't do it anymore. I don't think people really know. I don't think you really know. This isn't a movie to me.
RonanTheGrey 6y ago
Every once in a very great while, I see a reason for hope. Thank you anonymous stranger for being one of those great whiles.
LordFast 6y ago
Bravo. Welcome. Keep up the good work, brother.
- bourgwaletariat 6y ago
  Thank you. It means more than you know. Everyone here, thank you.
  - dontcarethrow2 6y ago
    Thank you, good man. These are the actions that make true real life heroes. It's an honor to be surfing these bytes today, thank you.
geebee 6y ago
I agree with what you're encouraging people to do, and I admire people who do the right thing, even when there's a cost. However, I believe that you're calling on engineers to act as professionals without the professional standing that empowers workers to act like a professional. For instance, consider this: https://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibility/publications/model_rules_of_professional_conduct/rule_5_4_professional_independence_of_a_lawyer/ https://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibili... (d) A lawyer shall not practice with or in the form of a professional corporation or association authorized to practice law for a profit, if: (3) a nonlawyer has the right to direct or control the professional judgment of a lawyer. In general, this means that 1) lawyers don't report to non-lawyers, and 2) non-lawyers can be imprisoned for practicing law without a license. That gives lawyers both a professional obligation and a professional power to meet that obligation. Now, I have misgivings about the kind of cartel-building we often see in the ABA, AMA, and so forth. But the truth is, engineers, in the way you're using the term (unlicensed software engineers) don't have any particular standing as professionals. There are benefits to this, in that we can be considered mere employees if our employers do something dastardly and we went along with it - there are limits to what a mere employee can go along with under the defense of following orders, but there's no malpractice. But the flip side is that we aren't empowered to hold the line the way licensed professionals are. That makes your willingness to stand up all the more impressive and commendable, but I can't really agree that software "engineers" have the kind of power you're describing, and it's built into the system that way (I put "engineers" that in quotes because in the context of this discussion, licensed PE holders do have more power, but not in the world of software).
- dantheman 6y ago
  How did these lawyer 'standards' hold John Yoo to account? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yoo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yoo These are merely cartels to restrict competition.
  - twunde 6y ago
    John Yoo is somewhat an unusual case, and he was held to account to some degree. If you read the Office of Professional Responsibility Report section in that wikipage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yoo#Office_of_Professional_Responsibility_report https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yoo#Office_of_Professiona... you'll see that he had to go through debarment hearings and was almost disbarred. A better example of these legal standards holding lawyers to account is Prenda Law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenda_Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenda_Law
EdgarVerona 6y ago
You did good, and I am proud of you. We must begin to treat our profession with the care due to it - recognizing the negative impact it can have on human lives, justice, and freedom when it is used with harmful or careless intent. The ACM Code of Ethics is the closest thing we have to our own Hippocratic Oath, and I encourage all engineers to read and take the serious obligations we are charged with to heart.
andrei_says_ 6y ago
Thank you. If the engineers at Facebook and Twitter acted the same way, the social dilemma would be a sci-fi movie :) I’ll use this opportunity to recommend Ruined by Design, a book which deals with the moral responsibility of designers and engineers. https://www.ruinedby.design/sample-chapter https://www.ruinedby.design/sample-chapter

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

gabereiser 6y ago

cheers! I've been saying this for a decade. What's really really hard is getting people to put ethics ahead of self, ahead of their paycheck and livelihood. Like the OP mentions, they likely just give it to a contractor (or outsource the entire project). We should be making technology for the betterment of man. Even reinventing the wheel to tackle shortcomings in markets and fixing fraud, not creating it. If there's an unfair advantage, we, engineers, need to make it fair. I learned to code because the grandfathers of the web decided to share their knowledge for free. I landed my first job because someone decided to take me under their wing and teach me more. I too, was asked to design and build a high frequency trading system that was designed to be fraudulent by default. I decided to walk away. I focus my career on solving mankind problems. Whether it's travel waste, roofing waste, energy waste or optimizations, solutions for reducing energy consumption via optimal cloud architectures, and designing scale system on as little footprint (carbon included) as possible. I'm against cryptocurrencies requiring so much energy to mine. It's killing our planet. We need to find a better way. Time based auto-token so long as you are able to capture the packet? I don't know... But we, humans, need to find sustainable ways to keep our machines and our society moving forward. I will never write code that gives an organization an unfair advantage over others or is fraud or "shady". I have no problem walking away, conscience clean. I can always get another job. Yes, some may end up implementing it anyway. Some would say "What about patents?" etc etc. A free market should be a fair market, otherwise it isn't free.

mushbino 6y ago

In this regard, I often think this is where a union or guild or something along those lines would be helpful. I've studied labor history extensively so I'm familiar with all of the downsides to a union. Some sort of collectivisation is needed to have support and collective input in cases such as this. The ones building it should have a voice. A single engineer putting their foot down is brave, but thousands putting their collective feet down can change the world.

dantheman 6y ago
Yeah, it's great when police unions fight against reducing sentences. We are in positions of privilege; we should build funds/organizations to protect and help whistleblowers; help them find jobs, have a fund to support them -- we don't need a union for this.
- bourgwaletariat 6y ago
  Well, here I am. Whistleblowing. Unemployed. Nothing and no one to support me. Suffering from C-PTSD every day. Unable to sleep at night, because I may be murdered for reporting a potential billion-dollar money laundering scheme. Fearing to even write this, but I feel compelled to, because I have nothing else. I've gone days without sleep. Woken up afraid for my life. My future. Knowing I may never work again. I may never be employed again. I may be on the street. Homeless. Unable to trust anyone ever again. There's no one. No one. Do you understand that? I'd happily have a union to protect me right now. My life may be over because there isn't one. What about people who want to do the right thing and so they are crushed by evil? Do you know how much literature there is out there about blowing the whistle? Do you know how many people are in prison right now for it? Being tortured every day. Julian Assange. Chelsea Manning. Karen Silkwood was poisoned and probably murdered and she was a leader in a union. What about them? Who is protecting them? Who protected them? No one. They are going to live a life of torture and die in prison because of the truth. Who is protecting the truth? Who is enabling the truth to exist? I spoke up and had to do it, I had to, I couldn't not do it, despite the very real threat that I might be murdered in my sleep. I can't stand to see this happening around me every day. I can't do it anymore. I don't think people really know. I don't think you really know. This isn't a movie to me.

RonanTheGrey 6y ago

Every once in a very great while, I see a reason for hope. Thank you anonymous stranger for being one of those great whiles.

LordFast 6y ago

Bravo. Welcome. Keep up the good work, brother.

bourgwaletariat 6y ago
Thank you. It means more than you know. Everyone here, thank you.
- dontcarethrow2 6y ago
  Thank you, good man. These are the actions that make true real life heroes. It's an honor to be surfing these bytes today, thank you.

geebee 6y ago

I agree with what you're encouraging people to do, and I admire people who do the right thing, even when there's a cost. However, I believe that you're calling on engineers to act as professionals without the professional standing that empowers workers to act like a professional. For instance, consider this: https://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibility/publications/model_rules_of_professional_conduct/rule_5_4_professional_independence_of_a_lawyer/ https://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibili... (d) A lawyer shall not practice with or in the form of a professional corporation or association authorized to practice law for a profit, if: (3) a nonlawyer has the right to direct or control the professional judgment of a lawyer. In general, this means that 1) lawyers don't report to non-lawyers, and 2) non-lawyers can be imprisoned for practicing law without a license. That gives lawyers both a professional obligation and a professional power to meet that obligation. Now, I have misgivings about the kind of cartel-building we often see in the ABA, AMA, and so forth. But the truth is, engineers, in the way you're using the term (unlicensed software engineers) don't have any particular standing as professionals. There are benefits to this, in that we can be considered mere employees if our employers do something dastardly and we went along with it - there are limits to what a mere employee can go along with under the defense of following orders, but there's no malpractice. But the flip side is that we aren't empowered to hold the line the way licensed professionals are. That makes your willingness to stand up all the more impressive and commendable, but I can't really agree that software "engineers" have the kind of power you're describing, and it's built into the system that way (I put "engineers" that in quotes because in the context of this discussion, licensed PE holders do have more power, but not in the world of software).

dantheman 6y ago
How did these lawyer 'standards' hold John Yoo to account? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yoo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yoo These are merely cartels to restrict competition.
- twunde 6y ago
  John Yoo is somewhat an unusual case, and he was held to account to some degree. If you read the Office of Professional Responsibility Report section in that wikipage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yoo#Office_of_Professional_Responsibility_report https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yoo#Office_of_Professiona... you'll see that he had to go through debarment hearings and was almost disbarred. A better example of these legal standards holding lawyers to account is Prenda Law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenda_Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenda_Law

EdgarVerona 6y ago

You did good, and I am proud of you. We must begin to treat our profession with the care due to it - recognizing the negative impact it can have on human lives, justice, and freedom when it is used with harmful or careless intent. The ACM Code of Ethics is the closest thing we have to our own Hippocratic Oath, and I encourage all engineers to read and take the serious obligations we are charged with to heart.

andrei_says_ 6y ago

Thank you. If the engineers at Facebook and Twitter acted the same way, the social dilemma would be a sci-fi movie :) I’ll use this opportunity to recommend Ruined by Design, a book which deals with the moral responsibility of designers and engineers. https://www.ruinedby.design/sample-chapter https://www.ruinedby.design/sample-chapter