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The way that ex-felons are treated in society is despicable, no wonder there's a 55% recidivism rate if you get blocked at every attempt to becoming a productiv

The way that ex-felons are treated in society is despicable, no wonder there's a 55% recidivism rate if you get blocked at every attempt to becoming a productive member of society. The Last Mile seems like a great program to share our tech skills and knowledge with people who really need a leg up. I will be signing up as a volunteer today.

JeremyBanks 6y ago
Felon disenfranchisement is also disgustingly anti-democratic and further segregates them from society at large. If you have enough felons for them to affect the outcome, your problem isn't that they have the right to vote, it's that you're arresting too many people.
- edbob 6y ago
  In Texas, voting rights are restored automatically upon completion of the sentence. It seems very fair to me. I don't consider it a hardship. I actually feel like it's a benefit to not have to worry about voting in this election.
- hinkley 6y ago
  As someone with a civics background once explained to me, what you don't want are laws that inspire contempt. Contempt for one law tends to blur into contempt for The Law, and then you've got anarchy.
throwaway894345 6y ago
I would be very interested in understanding how much of that recidivism rate is attributable to "ex-felon discrimination" or whatever we might call it as opposed to other variables.
- lostlogin 6y ago
  It gets very philosophical fast. Prison is for punishment, rehabilitation, protection of society and is there to serve as a deterrent. Over emphasis on the need to punish seems to cause a lot of long term harm.
  - throwaway894345 6y ago
    I don't dispute that, but I'm genuinely not sure how that fits in with my comment. Could you clarify?
    - lostlogin 6y ago
      Too obtuse, sorry. US prisons are heavy on the punishment aspect of imprisonment relative to the system where I am, NZ. If you emphasis punishment rather than rehabilitation, you are setting the scene for discrimination post release. It’s a sort of chicken and egg situation. I appreciate the irony in claiming this in a thread on someone’s hard earned achievement post release.
  - hinkley 6y ago
    One arm of the 'defund the police' camp wants to take rehabilitation and mental health issues away from the criminal justice system. Although practically, the sharks in the private prison industry have already tasted blood. They are smart enough to pivot, leaving us with the same perverse incentives, or worse. Way more people can forgive a drug conviction than an involuntary commitment to a mental health institution, and abuse is harder report.
    - nickff 6y ago
      The private prison industry is a relatively small portion of total incarceration capacity; the real sharks in that area are the prison guards' unions.
  - watwut 6y ago
    Afaik, obstacles are not just prison. It is how ex prisoners have much limited housing options, employment options. And how those living with them (like family) have them limited housing options too.
oaiey 6y ago
> A society should be judged not by how it treats its outstanding citizens but by how it treats its criminals. Fyodor Dostoyevsky There is nothing more to say, than this also applies to ex-felons.
- Dahoon 6y ago
  >The true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members. - Ghandi
  - vector_spaces 6y ago
    Not to disparage this sentiment, but > Ours is one continual struggle against a degradation sought to be inflicted upon us by the Europeans, who desire to degrade us to the level of the raw Kaffir whose occupation is hunting, and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with and, then, pass his life in indolence and nakedness. - Gandhi (Kaffir was a slur used against black South Africans more or less equivalent to the n-word)
    - arolihas 6y ago
      What was the purpose of sharing that quote then, if not to disparage the sentiment? To disparage whoever said it? Do you know when that quote was made, as Gandhi’s views (which were a product of his time and upbringing) evolved over the span of his life?
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - vector_spaces 6y ago
        My point was that figures like Gandhi are idolized in the West through tired, decontextualized quotes like the one above, and the result is that they are (popularly) effectively above reproach. The result is an ahistorical understanding of a complicated person who held a number of views (at various points in his life, although there's little evidence to support that his thinking on this particular topic evolved much over the course of his life) and engaged in behaviours that few would disagree were completely reprehensible. Speaking of ahistoricism, I don't understand your point that his views were "a product of his time". Firstly, not everyone in his time held them, and more importantly, applying that logic one could dismiss pretty much any atrocity as "a product of its time".

JeremyBanks 6y ago

Felon disenfranchisement is also disgustingly anti-democratic and further segregates them from society at large. If you have enough felons for them to affect the outcome, your problem isn't that they have the right to vote, it's that you're arresting too many people.

edbob 6y ago
In Texas, voting rights are restored automatically upon completion of the sentence. It seems very fair to me. I don't consider it a hardship. I actually feel like it's a benefit to not have to worry about voting in this election.
hinkley 6y ago
As someone with a civics background once explained to me, what you don't want are laws that inspire contempt. Contempt for one law tends to blur into contempt for The Law, and then you've got anarchy.

throwaway894345 6y ago

I would be very interested in understanding how much of that recidivism rate is attributable to "ex-felon discrimination" or whatever we might call it as opposed to other variables.

lostlogin 6y ago
It gets very philosophical fast. Prison is for punishment, rehabilitation, protection of society and is there to serve as a deterrent. Over emphasis on the need to punish seems to cause a lot of long term harm.
- throwaway894345 6y ago
  I don't dispute that, but I'm genuinely not sure how that fits in with my comment. Could you clarify?
  - lostlogin 6y ago
    Too obtuse, sorry. US prisons are heavy on the punishment aspect of imprisonment relative to the system where I am, NZ. If you emphasis punishment rather than rehabilitation, you are setting the scene for discrimination post release. It’s a sort of chicken and egg situation. I appreciate the irony in claiming this in a thread on someone’s hard earned achievement post release.
- hinkley 6y ago
  One arm of the 'defund the police' camp wants to take rehabilitation and mental health issues away from the criminal justice system. Although practically, the sharks in the private prison industry have already tasted blood. They are smart enough to pivot, leaving us with the same perverse incentives, or worse. Way more people can forgive a drug conviction than an involuntary commitment to a mental health institution, and abuse is harder report.
  - nickff 6y ago
    The private prison industry is a relatively small portion of total incarceration capacity; the real sharks in that area are the prison guards' unions.
- watwut 6y ago
  Afaik, obstacles are not just prison. It is how ex prisoners have much limited housing options, employment options. And how those living with them (like family) have them limited housing options too.

oaiey 6y ago

> A society should be judged not by how it treats its outstanding citizens but by how it treats its criminals. Fyodor Dostoyevsky There is nothing more to say, than this also applies to ex-felons.

Dahoon 6y ago
>The true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members. - Ghandi
- vector_spaces 6y ago
  Not to disparage this sentiment, but > Ours is one continual struggle against a degradation sought to be inflicted upon us by the Europeans, who desire to degrade us to the level of the raw Kaffir whose occupation is hunting, and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with and, then, pass his life in indolence and nakedness. - Gandhi (Kaffir was a slur used against black South Africans more or less equivalent to the n-word)
  - arolihas 6y ago
    What was the purpose of sharing that quote then, if not to disparage the sentiment? To disparage whoever said it? Do you know when that quote was made, as Gandhi’s views (which were a product of his time and upbringing) evolved over the span of his life?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - vector_spaces 6y ago
      My point was that figures like Gandhi are idolized in the West through tired, decontextualized quotes like the one above, and the result is that they are (popularly) effectively above reproach. The result is an ahistorical understanding of a complicated person who held a number of views (at various points in his life, although there's little evidence to support that his thinking on this particular topic evolved much over the course of his life) and engaged in behaviours that few would disagree were completely reprehensible. Speaking of ahistoricism, I don't understand your point that his views were "a product of his time". Firstly, not everyone in his time held them, and more importantly, applying that logic one could dismiss pretty much any atrocity as "a product of its time".