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For 2.5-3 years I flew continental exclusively, 100s of thousands of miles every year. I was consulting from Houston, TX to NY, CA, AZ, Dallas (sometimes I woul

For 2.5-3 years I flew continental exclusively, 100s of thousands of miles every year. I was consulting from Houston, TX to NY, CA, AZ, Dallas (sometimes I would fly instead of drive), and CO, after a certain number of miles you basically are auto upgraded to first class every single flight, and then you scale your way up through the membership levels. I had around 500k unused miles in my account because the last thing I wanted on vacation after flying back and forth each week to different places was to go fly somewhere. My vacations were usually cross country road trips. My wife and I would rent a nice car, pile the trunk with luggage and just hit the road stopping whenever we wanted. It was the perfect vacation from an overly structured life. Within a few months of me no longer consulting on the road like that, I was alerted that United was buying Continental, and I'm sure in that press release I didn't read, it probably said something about all my miles, but I didn't pay attention to it until about a year later when United told me my miles were expiring. So I logged to trade those miles in for a couple tickets to somewhere far far away, and saw my 500k miles from Continental had be devalued to 50k miles at United. Worth at the time 2 domestic round trips if I paid $150 per ticket to redeem them before they expired. So my miles that used to get me into lounges, and first class upgrades, and basically free flights to almost anywhere in the world got me about a 20% discount on 2 round trip tickets to Denver... That was the last time I flew United unless it was the cheapest "real" option (I refuse Spirit and Allegiant).

jdxcode 6y ago
> That was the last time I flew United unless it was the cheapest "real" option (I refuse Spirit and Allegiant). Isn't that what most people pick anyways?
- Zhenya 6y ago
  I think people optimize for value which is a combination of cost, time and convenience. I won't save 50$ or even 100$ if it means I have a connecting flight or spend more time traveling. My goal is to get somewhere as convenientlt as possible balanced with cost..
dannyw 6y ago
Short term management greed has destroyed long term shareholder value.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- jermaustin1 6y ago
  It's more than that, honestly, I feel Frequent Flyer programs are being misconstrued as an asset, when in fact for exit strategies they are probably a liability. I don't have any real data, but anecdotally, the only people I've known who are truly loyal to a loyalty program are the hyper-milers, and they accumulate so many miles and just sit on them. United has since changed their program (of which I'm still a member, but only use begrudgingly), and you wont lose your miles so long as you remain active on the program. I'm sure there are more caveats, but I don't pay attention to it anymore.
JumpCrisscross 6y ago
Unused miles are marketed as dollars in a bank. But they're not. They're unsecured claims against the airline. Worse, they're claims the airline reserves the right to unilaterally devalue. They're deposits in a Venezuelan bank. As such, the best strategy is eagerly consuming miles. This is admittedly not always easy to do, particularly mileage flights can't be paired with upgrade certificates and do not count towards status. In my experience, frequent fliers with lots of miles and who care about maintaining status are best served by buying others flights with miles.
- ndesaulniers 6y ago
  "deposits in a Venezuelan bank" is elegant simile. I can't wait to use it at work to describe our technical debt!
  - ukoki 6y ago
    > to describe our technical debt! Are you sure? Debt that gets diluted to nothing like those airmiles or deposits in a Venezuelan bank would be best kind of debt.
- angel_j 6y ago
  Travel is so valuable to perspective, too. I know some people on the woke spectrum who would be a lot less miserable if they traveled even to other U.S. states, but the up-front cost is a barrier. Share your miles, make the world a better place! The U.S. should invest in sending youth abroad (not excluding domestically). The U.S. should also invest in sending entrepreneurs abroad. Thanks for coming to my two-cent talk.
- jocker12 6y ago
  This is an eye opener - https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2020/07/hubert-horan-can-collateralizing-frequent-flyer-programs-help-save-the-us-airlines.html https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2020/07/hubert-horan-can-col...
- doonesbury 6y ago
  Unsecured claim I think is the better business analogy ...
_red 6y ago
All in all, one of the silver linings of the covid hysteria is the destruction of airlines. I'm someone who has probably flown very close to 1M miles in my life. Spent about 15 years on planes weekly. Flying in my lifetime has moved from being something 'fun and exclusive' to 'taking the bus with strip searches'. After 911 none of the airlines really pushed back on the Orwellian security theater its customers were forced thru...I understand it, perhaps it just wasn't worth the effort, perhaps enough of their customers wanted more searches. Around 8 years ago, I moved to trying to do online meetings when possible and agreeing to drive for anything less than 8 hours or so. Its been a welcome upgrade in life. As much of a pain as driving 6 hours for meeting is, you strangely feel less stressed out than dealing with the insanity of airports and cattle-cars.
- jermaustin1 6y ago
  Wow, 1M miles... I don't think I could have handled that. Continental gave bonus miles which is the only reason I had 500k, but I think I made it to 150k actual miles. The bonuses were self propagating, I would get a bonus miles because I was upgraded for free to first class because I had so many miles. That is probably why they were devalued so hard when United bought them.
- throwaway9980 6y ago
  Having friends that work for a major airline I initially reacted with horror at your opening statement. But this, so much this: “ Flying in my lifetime has moved from being something 'fun and exclusive' to 'taking the bus with strip searches'.” I’m the same way now too. I will drive up to 8 hours to avoid flying and typically just don’t make the longer flights unless absolutely necessary.
- aksss 6y ago
  Customers want(ed) it. Remember when the TSA was going to roll back the ban on pocket knives[0] and then due to feedback from a bunch of Karens they backed off and kept the ban in place[1]? I think more rollbacks would have been on offer had that happened but now the safety/nerf people endorse it all. There's no going back at this point, I'm afraid. [0] https://www.cnn.com/2013/03/05/travel/tsa-carry-on-changes/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2013/03/05/travel/tsa-carry-on-changes/i... [1] https://travelinglight.com/can-you-bring-a-knife-in-checked-luggage/ https://travelinglight.com/can-you-bring-a-knife-in-checked-...
AlexTWithBeard 6y ago
For the unaware: what's wrong with flying Spirit?
- sharkmerry 6y ago
  I have never flown with them but did work for a startup airline for a few years. Reputation is low-cost, no-frills airline. I believe you only get a personal carry-on (under seat) free. Everything else you need to pay for. I've heard compare to ryan air in europe
  - jermaustin1 6y ago
    It's basically Ryanair but 2-3 times more expensive for comparable distances and terrible reliability. I have only flown them once (well twice, round trip to Vegas for a show and back). It cost $400 to go from Houston to Las Vegas round trip, which was only 30% cheaper than the next option... which i should have paid for. I got on the plane about 10 minutes after take off was supposed to happen, the pilot and co-pilot were huddled talking very fast and low, which piqued my suspission. After 30 minutes of not moving back, the pilot let us know that we had to get off and go to another gate to another aircraft, and that this one had a light that was concerning them. So then, after everyone had finally boarded the new plane, we took off about 2 hours late. As we got to Vegas, and the flaps were down and we were coming in on final, the flaps went back up, the pilot sped up and we circled the airport for around 45 minutes, and apparently the landing gear was stuck. I guess they eventually got it unstuck, because we landed. But 2 planes in a row that were screwed up was too much for me. Even after an uneventful flight back home that same night, I swore them off forever.
- linuxftw 6y ago
  Spirit will often only have a flight to/from a particular destination every few days. They used to have a fair amount of cancellations/delays that would cause you to be stranded. I have never flown Spirit, and I will continue to avoid it in the future because the low fares aren't enough to justify potentially getting stranded and having to book last minute at extreme cost on a competing airline. If your plans are flexible and you just want to travel for the lowest amount possible, it's probably a good option to consider.

jdxcode 6y ago

> That was the last time I flew United unless it was the cheapest "real" option (I refuse Spirit and Allegiant). Isn't that what most people pick anyways?

Zhenya 6y ago
I think people optimize for value which is a combination of cost, time and convenience. I won't save 50$ or even 100$ if it means I have a connecting flight or spend more time traveling. My goal is to get somewhere as convenientlt as possible balanced with cost..

dannyw 6y ago

Short term management greed has destroyed long term shareholder value.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
jermaustin1 6y ago
It's more than that, honestly, I feel Frequent Flyer programs are being misconstrued as an asset, when in fact for exit strategies they are probably a liability. I don't have any real data, but anecdotally, the only people I've known who are truly loyal to a loyalty program are the hyper-milers, and they accumulate so many miles and just sit on them. United has since changed their program (of which I'm still a member, but only use begrudgingly), and you wont lose your miles so long as you remain active on the program. I'm sure there are more caveats, but I don't pay attention to it anymore.

JumpCrisscross 6y ago

Unused miles are marketed as dollars in a bank. But they're not. They're unsecured claims against the airline. Worse, they're claims the airline reserves the right to unilaterally devalue. They're deposits in a Venezuelan bank. As such, the best strategy is eagerly consuming miles. This is admittedly not always easy to do, particularly mileage flights can't be paired with upgrade certificates and do not count towards status. In my experience, frequent fliers with lots of miles and who care about maintaining status are best served by buying others flights with miles.

ndesaulniers 6y ago
"deposits in a Venezuelan bank" is elegant simile. I can't wait to use it at work to describe our technical debt!
- ukoki 6y ago
  > to describe our technical debt! Are you sure? Debt that gets diluted to nothing like those airmiles or deposits in a Venezuelan bank would be best kind of debt.
angel_j 6y ago
Travel is so valuable to perspective, too. I know some people on the woke spectrum who would be a lot less miserable if they traveled even to other U.S. states, but the up-front cost is a barrier. Share your miles, make the world a better place! The U.S. should invest in sending youth abroad (not excluding domestically). The U.S. should also invest in sending entrepreneurs abroad. Thanks for coming to my two-cent talk.
jocker12 6y ago
This is an eye opener - https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2020/07/hubert-horan-can-collateralizing-frequent-flyer-programs-help-save-the-us-airlines.html https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2020/07/hubert-horan-can-col...
doonesbury 6y ago
Unsecured claim I think is the better business analogy ...

_red 6y ago

All in all, one of the silver linings of the covid hysteria is the destruction of airlines. I'm someone who has probably flown very close to 1M miles in my life. Spent about 15 years on planes weekly. Flying in my lifetime has moved from being something 'fun and exclusive' to 'taking the bus with strip searches'. After 911 none of the airlines really pushed back on the Orwellian security theater its customers were forced thru...I understand it, perhaps it just wasn't worth the effort, perhaps enough of their customers wanted more searches. Around 8 years ago, I moved to trying to do online meetings when possible and agreeing to drive for anything less than 8 hours or so. Its been a welcome upgrade in life. As much of a pain as driving 6 hours for meeting is, you strangely feel less stressed out than dealing with the insanity of airports and cattle-cars.

jermaustin1 6y ago
Wow, 1M miles... I don't think I could have handled that. Continental gave bonus miles which is the only reason I had 500k, but I think I made it to 150k actual miles. The bonuses were self propagating, I would get a bonus miles because I was upgraded for free to first class because I had so many miles. That is probably why they were devalued so hard when United bought them.
throwaway9980 6y ago
Having friends that work for a major airline I initially reacted with horror at your opening statement. But this, so much this: “ Flying in my lifetime has moved from being something 'fun and exclusive' to 'taking the bus with strip searches'.” I’m the same way now too. I will drive up to 8 hours to avoid flying and typically just don’t make the longer flights unless absolutely necessary.
aksss 6y ago
Customers want(ed) it. Remember when the TSA was going to roll back the ban on pocket knives[0] and then due to feedback from a bunch of Karens they backed off and kept the ban in place[1]? I think more rollbacks would have been on offer had that happened but now the safety/nerf people endorse it all. There's no going back at this point, I'm afraid. [0] https://www.cnn.com/2013/03/05/travel/tsa-carry-on-changes/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2013/03/05/travel/tsa-carry-on-changes/i... [1] https://travelinglight.com/can-you-bring-a-knife-in-checked-luggage/ https://travelinglight.com/can-you-bring-a-knife-in-checked-...

AlexTWithBeard 6y ago

For the unaware: what's wrong with flying Spirit?

sharkmerry 6y ago
I have never flown with them but did work for a startup airline for a few years. Reputation is low-cost, no-frills airline. I believe you only get a personal carry-on (under seat) free. Everything else you need to pay for. I've heard compare to ryan air in europe
- jermaustin1 6y ago
  It's basically Ryanair but 2-3 times more expensive for comparable distances and terrible reliability. I have only flown them once (well twice, round trip to Vegas for a show and back). It cost $400 to go from Houston to Las Vegas round trip, which was only 30% cheaper than the next option... which i should have paid for. I got on the plane about 10 minutes after take off was supposed to happen, the pilot and co-pilot were huddled talking very fast and low, which piqued my suspission. After 30 minutes of not moving back, the pilot let us know that we had to get off and go to another gate to another aircraft, and that this one had a light that was concerning them. So then, after everyone had finally boarded the new plane, we took off about 2 hours late. As we got to Vegas, and the flaps were down and we were coming in on final, the flaps went back up, the pilot sped up and we circled the airport for around 45 minutes, and apparently the landing gear was stuck. I guess they eventually got it unstuck, because we landed. But 2 planes in a row that were screwed up was too much for me. Even after an uneventful flight back home that same night, I swore them off forever.
linuxftw 6y ago
Spirit will often only have a flight to/from a particular destination every few days. They used to have a fair amount of cancellations/delays that would cause you to be stranded. I have never flown Spirit, and I will continue to avoid it in the future because the low fares aren't enough to justify potentially getting stranded and having to book last minute at extreme cost on a competing airline. If your plans are flexible and you just want to travel for the lowest amount possible, it's probably a good option to consider.