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>They hawk their credit cards so heavily on the flights that I almost feel bad for the flight attendants. This really should be illegal along with advertisemen

>They hawk their credit cards so heavily on the flights that I almost feel bad for the flight attendants. This really should be illegal along with advertisements on every screen on the aircraft that you can't turn off. edit: either i got a downvote or the hackernews bot decided my discussions aren't up to snuff. more gaslighting from the mods.

brk 6y ago
I do not disagree with you in general, though in a list of "Things airlines do that should be illegal", I'm not even sure this would be in the top 20.
- srtjstjsj 6y ago
  What's your list? Actively harassing people trapped in a crowded room with no way to exit is pretty serious. If you did what the airline does with the ads, you'd be kicked off the plane and arrested.
  - brk 6y ago
    In general, I would start with addressing things they are allowed to get away with in terms of (re)scheduling flights, not updating passengers with relevant info in a timely manner, holding flights/passengers, and refunds/cancellations. The in-flight ads are mostly avoidable if I put on headphones and/or just close my eyes and take a nap. As long as the plane is in the air, on schedule, and moving in the right direction, I am getting the core product I paid for.
  - pc86 6y ago
    > If you did what the airline does with the ads, you'd be kicked off the plane and arrested. Well of course you would, you don't own the plane.
  - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
    > Actively harassing people trapped in a crowded room with no way to exit is pretty serious I fly Delta. I have never been harassed about their cards. I pay a premium to fly Delta on most routes. But it's partly to avoid this sort of crap. When I was in college and early adulthood, on the other hand, I'd gladly take some marketing in exchange for another twenty bucks in my pocket. Banning that subsidy seems like a poor use of legislative power.
blantonl 6y ago
It's definitely irritating, but on what legal grounds should this be declared illegal?
- bluntfang 6y ago
  I don't understand the question. Just make it illegal. That's the legal grounds. Are you asking for a court precedent or something? IANAL. I assure you that if there was a federal popular vote question for "should airlines be able to advertise to you on the airplane where you can't turn them off after you paids 100s of dollars for a ticket?" there would be a unanimous NO.
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    > I don't understand the question. Just make it illegal. That's the legal grounds. Are there other types of private speech you would like to make illegal?
    - tedunangst 6y ago
      I would like to make it illegal to clutter up HN threads with off topic comments.
      - sokoloff 6y ago
        Apologies if I did not leave the dots close enough that it seemed off-topic. In the US (which regulates all the air carriers mentioned by name in the article), the First Amendment presents a high hurdle to government prohibition of speech. In a subthread on the legal standing for a proposed ban on advertising/solicitation in flight, that hurdle seems significant and certainly relevant to me.
        jkinudsjknds 6y ago
        having an ad channel is free speech. Making the ad unable to be turned off is forcing you to listen.
dageshi 6y ago
The ticket buying public has over the decades indicated that the only thing they really care about is ticket price and little else. I am sure they would be very grateful to you for making advertising illegal on flights and therefore their tickets more expensive.
- coliveira 6y ago
  > over the decades indicated that the only thing they really care about is ticket price No, this is an incorrect inference. A better explanation is that people have little money to spend, so in this situation they prefer to get something rather than no travel. Your explanation would be valid only if everyone had enough money to buy expensive tickets and always preferred to buy the cheap ones instead. It is also funny that for affluent consumers they reach the conclusion that such consumers "prefer" comfort, when in fact they're not different from anyone else in this matter, they just have more money to pay for it.
  - nemo44x 6y ago
    I disagree and the reason why is because before flight aggregators there were more airlines and many of them offered a better "coach" experience like 2-across leather seating, better food, etc. And their prices were not much more expensive than the more cramped, economy airlines. Like $15-$30 per seat more expensive in many instances. They did pretty good business because many fights were booked through travel agents who would be able to explain that a flight that costs a bit more was worth it. When flight aggregators arrived on the scene, people (casual fliers in particular) would almost without exception book the cheapest flight that was reasonably within their time preferences and without extra stops, if possible. Because there was no one to talk you into the better value of other airlines it became a race to the bottom. The edge these airlines had in selling comfort became obsolete and they mainly sold out to larger carriers during the airline consolidation of the early 2000's.
    - coliveira 6y ago
      But here the explanation is in economies of scale, not just consumer behavior. Lower cost flights are also cheaper to run, so airlines make more profit on scale, which drove out other operators. As a result, from the point of view of consumers these cheap flights give more flexible options in terms of schedule. This is not different from other industries, where cheaper products became the norm because the companies making them were so much more profitable on scale.
freehunter 6y ago
Downvotes happen. Complaining about downvotes causes more downvotes to happen. There's a reason the guidelines say "don't comment about voting".
- bluntfang 6y ago
  Nah dude there are hidden features where if you're not participating they way they want you to participate they give you an auto downvote. edit: i just got my posts rate limited for making this comment. Basically they think I'm a "bad" participator, so instead of being transparent about what they're doing and telling me how to participate correctly, they say things like "Slow down. You are posting too fast." when you try to make a new post. It's gaslighting and immature. They don't want a community, they want to squash dissenting opinions and they don't want to be transparent about it. Meanwhile the comments section on political posts are full of racist dog whistles and reek of the stench of male white privilege prevalent in silicon valley.
  - blantonl 6y ago
    whatever is happening to your posts, downvotes, rate limiting, etc... seems to be working perfectly and as intended.
    - Der_Einzige 6y ago
      I can't believe how much of a jerk you can be on HN and how much the crowd will just go with it (I am talking about the comment directly above mine, not the original one starting this thread) No, the OPs complaints are genuine, real, and experienced by multiple other (high quality) members... and telling the OP that stuff is "working as intended" is such a big slap in the face. You know, people who are very unhappy and believe they were unfairly singled out have been known to de very rash things in revenge. One day HN is going to moderate the wrong person in the wrong way and suddenly a mass DDOS attack happens. It would be better to act with compassion and an open mind towards this poster.
      - 6y ago

brk 6y ago

I do not disagree with you in general, though in a list of "Things airlines do that should be illegal", I'm not even sure this would be in the top 20.

srtjstjsj 6y ago
What's your list? Actively harassing people trapped in a crowded room with no way to exit is pretty serious. If you did what the airline does with the ads, you'd be kicked off the plane and arrested.
- brk 6y ago
  In general, I would start with addressing things they are allowed to get away with in terms of (re)scheduling flights, not updating passengers with relevant info in a timely manner, holding flights/passengers, and refunds/cancellations. The in-flight ads are mostly avoidable if I put on headphones and/or just close my eyes and take a nap. As long as the plane is in the air, on schedule, and moving in the right direction, I am getting the core product I paid for.
- pc86 6y ago
  > If you did what the airline does with the ads, you'd be kicked off the plane and arrested. Well of course you would, you don't own the plane.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
  > Actively harassing people trapped in a crowded room with no way to exit is pretty serious I fly Delta. I have never been harassed about their cards. I pay a premium to fly Delta on most routes. But it's partly to avoid this sort of crap. When I was in college and early adulthood, on the other hand, I'd gladly take some marketing in exchange for another twenty bucks in my pocket. Banning that subsidy seems like a poor use of legislative power.

blantonl 6y ago

It's definitely irritating, but on what legal grounds should this be declared illegal?

bluntfang 6y ago
I don't understand the question. Just make it illegal. That's the legal grounds. Are you asking for a court precedent or something? IANAL. I assure you that if there was a federal popular vote question for "should airlines be able to advertise to you on the airplane where you can't turn them off after you paids 100s of dollars for a ticket?" there would be a unanimous NO.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  > I don't understand the question. Just make it illegal. That's the legal grounds. Are there other types of private speech you would like to make illegal?
  - tedunangst 6y ago
    I would like to make it illegal to clutter up HN threads with off topic comments.
    - sokoloff 6y ago
      Apologies if I did not leave the dots close enough that it seemed off-topic. In the US (which regulates all the air carriers mentioned by name in the article), the First Amendment presents a high hurdle to government prohibition of speech. In a subthread on the legal standing for a proposed ban on advertising/solicitation in flight, that hurdle seems significant and certainly relevant to me.
      - jkinudsjknds 6y ago
        having an ad channel is free speech. Making the ad unable to be turned off is forcing you to listen.

dageshi 6y ago

The ticket buying public has over the decades indicated that the only thing they really care about is ticket price and little else. I am sure they would be very grateful to you for making advertising illegal on flights and therefore their tickets more expensive.

coliveira 6y ago
> over the decades indicated that the only thing they really care about is ticket price No, this is an incorrect inference. A better explanation is that people have little money to spend, so in this situation they prefer to get something rather than no travel. Your explanation would be valid only if everyone had enough money to buy expensive tickets and always preferred to buy the cheap ones instead. It is also funny that for affluent consumers they reach the conclusion that such consumers "prefer" comfort, when in fact they're not different from anyone else in this matter, they just have more money to pay for it.
- nemo44x 6y ago
  I disagree and the reason why is because before flight aggregators there were more airlines and many of them offered a better "coach" experience like 2-across leather seating, better food, etc. And their prices were not much more expensive than the more cramped, economy airlines. Like $15-$30 per seat more expensive in many instances. They did pretty good business because many fights were booked through travel agents who would be able to explain that a flight that costs a bit more was worth it. When flight aggregators arrived on the scene, people (casual fliers in particular) would almost without exception book the cheapest flight that was reasonably within their time preferences and without extra stops, if possible. Because there was no one to talk you into the better value of other airlines it became a race to the bottom. The edge these airlines had in selling comfort became obsolete and they mainly sold out to larger carriers during the airline consolidation of the early 2000's.
  - coliveira 6y ago
    But here the explanation is in economies of scale, not just consumer behavior. Lower cost flights are also cheaper to run, so airlines make more profit on scale, which drove out other operators. As a result, from the point of view of consumers these cheap flights give more flexible options in terms of schedule. This is not different from other industries, where cheaper products became the norm because the companies making them were so much more profitable on scale.

freehunter 6y ago

Downvotes happen. Complaining about downvotes causes more downvotes to happen. There's a reason the guidelines say "don't comment about voting".

bluntfang 6y ago
Nah dude there are hidden features where if you're not participating they way they want you to participate they give you an auto downvote. edit: i just got my posts rate limited for making this comment. Basically they think I'm a "bad" participator, so instead of being transparent about what they're doing and telling me how to participate correctly, they say things like "Slow down. You are posting too fast." when you try to make a new post. It's gaslighting and immature. They don't want a community, they want to squash dissenting opinions and they don't want to be transparent about it. Meanwhile the comments section on political posts are full of racist dog whistles and reek of the stench of male white privilege prevalent in silicon valley.
- blantonl 6y ago
  whatever is happening to your posts, downvotes, rate limiting, etc... seems to be working perfectly and as intended.
  - Der_Einzige 6y ago
    I can't believe how much of a jerk you can be on HN and how much the crowd will just go with it (I am talking about the comment directly above mine, not the original one starting this thread) No, the OPs complaints are genuine, real, and experienced by multiple other (high quality) members... and telling the OP that stuff is "working as intended" is such a big slap in the face. You know, people who are very unhappy and believe they were unfairly singled out have been known to de very rash things in revenge. One day HN is going to moderate the wrong person in the wrong way and suddenly a mass DDOS attack happens. It would be better to act with compassion and an open mind towards this poster.
    - 6y ago