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Seems legit. /s "Friend of a friend" - nothing suspicious there, it must be true. "Might have reversed the co's" - yup, might or might not, 100% true story. ed

Seems legit. /s "Friend of a friend" - nothing suspicious there, it must be true. "Might have reversed the co's" - yup, might or might not, 100% true story. edit: And a bit further down the thread: "I don't know him." In some remote case this is true, 2 full-time contracts can be downright illegal to have. And tax office might be very interested at the end of the year.

INTPenis 6y ago
Yeah, best to remain skeptical. This seems like perfect material for a modern urban legend. It's definitely plausible but not sustainable. If found out they might lose both jobs and alienate themselves from two major players in the IT business.
spuz 6y ago
Another person in that thread said they did the same thing for 6 months during the quarantine. At least two other folks on that thread have said they know someone who did the same thing.
mtnGoat 6y ago
I don't know of any laws in the US preventing this. Unless one contact barred you from the other, in which case it would be civil.
- animationwill 6y ago
  Im not a tax lawyer or accountant but I don't see the IRS getting involved here either, nor it raising red flags, unless this went on for greater than a year. A W2 doesnt indicate the dates you worked for an employer, though the stock vesting would indicate overlap. Not sure about California tax forms though.
- rajup 6y ago
  Maybe not illegal from a tax point of view but illegal as hell for someone on a H1B visa (which quite a significant number of employees in these companies have).
  - srtjstjsj 6y ago
    Could an H1B holder sneak past second company's HR/Legal and the filings?
jdminhbg 6y ago
> And tax office might be very interested at the end of the year. As long as you didn’t do anything stupid about withholding (and even then, it’s just a $ penalty you pay April 15 if you way underpaid multiple years), I don’t see why they would care. They don’t care if you have multiple part time jobs either as long as you pay your income tax.
- Moto7451 6y ago
  Correct. There are a lot of college students and adults with irregular employment that would have been rounded up and sent to jail otherwise. I worked simultaneously for three different employers in my late teens/early twenties including a part time job working for my city government. No one, especially the IRS, blinked an eye because this is 100% normal. Now if you’re in an at will employment job then the employer can just fire you if they don’t like what you’re doing, but the same is true if they woke up cranky on a Tuesday. If you read your offer letter they make it sound like some sort of law from on high that lets them do this but it’s just a basic principle of employment in an At-Will arrangement.
thatguy0900 6y ago
I'm not understanding why this should be considered bad? Presumably both companies are satisfied with his work output, and if not, are free to fire him.
- andrewcl 6y ago
  Disagreements on which company owns the IP generated by the employee might end up costing both companies more than the value the employee generates. Legal costs quite a bit. Another consideration, if this person is able to complete their work in half the time then this person was brought on at a responsibility level that was too low. Theoretically, the job should be taking 40 hours. It's the company's responsibility to load balance the tasks for their employee's to fill an FTE's schedule.
  - aaomidi 6y ago
    This happens all the time though. Also no one is writing code 40 hours a week. Who on earth has the ability to do that?
    - andrewcl 6y ago
      A point to keep in mind, tasks does not necessarily equate to writing code. Think for example, writing a design doc, responding to email, or reviewing any kind of metrics. If this person was hired as a manager or a technical lead then the person might be doing non-code work.
  - ryandrake 6y ago
    I wonder if it would be considered "bad" if one of the jobs didn't produce IP (code) and the other one did. Or if both didn't produce IP. Or if the companies were not direct competitors. If I had some "marketing manager" title at Facebook, why couldn't I also do the same work at Chase Bank or some other non-competitor, if both were willing to hire me on a WFH basis? What ethical line does that really cross?
    - 6y ago
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
lallysingh 6y ago
The guy could be a contractor for both, and some details may have been lost in the telephone game. Also, the only thing that's a problem is the employment contract. They both surely have clauses about working for someone else in the industry, and/or listing any side businesses.
- justinclift 6y ago
  Wonder which one will have "exclusive ownership" of any created IP? If the roles are very different, it could be clear cut. If the roles have substantial overlap though...
- C1sc0cat 6y ago
  The contract would normally disallow working for competitors I know when the agency I worked for worked with Disney we signed an exclusivity agreement that we could not work with paramount MGM universal etc.
  - jojo2333 6y ago
    Not true. Contractors, by law, have the ability to work when/how they want including for multiple clients. If there is something specific in the contract, it is a civil issue.
S_A_P 6y ago
I contracted for 4 companies at the same time. Not seeing a problem here. If the employee is 1) not using the IP of either company at each job 2) accomplishing his objectives at each company Where is the harm here? If you are a FTE what is the implication that you can’t work elsewhere as well? Is it in the employment agreement? If so I would say that seems illegal.
dilyevsky 6y ago
irs will just process two w2 - why would they care?
bluedevil2k 6y ago
> And tax office might be very interested Why would they care at all? If he's full-time on both, then he's having the taxes deducted from his wages. In fact, he'll get a refund at the end of the year because he's overpaying FICA (6% up to $110k on both jobs, when his maximum contribution should just be 6% up to $110k (not exact numbers)). If he's a contractor, then he has to pay estimated taxes on both jobs, just like someone would with 1 job. In either case, as long as he does proper accounting like anyone with 1 job would need to, he'll be fine in the IRS's eyes.
- aaomidi 6y ago
  They wouldn't. They'd get their cut and not do anything more. IRS basically never starts investigations from what was in tax returns as long as they get their money so they don't scare off people from filing tax returns and paying taxes.
toast0 6y ago
I mean, this certainly violates the employment contract of both Facebook and Google. I've seen only one of those, but I can't imagine the other doesn't have a non-compete against working for a competitor while employed (which is at least potentially enforcable in California). You might be able to negotiate that away, if you really tried. But breaching a contract isn't illegal. There's no tax issues, the IRS and the FTB don't care how many employers you have. Without due care, withholding will be off more than normal, but both employers will withhold for employee social security, and assuming combined wages are over the contribution limit, there will be a refund of overcontributions. Having two employers in one year makes it possible to overcontribute to 401k, but that's managable.

INTPenis 6y ago

Yeah, best to remain skeptical. This seems like perfect material for a modern urban legend. It's definitely plausible but not sustainable. If found out they might lose both jobs and alienate themselves from two major players in the IT business.

spuz 6y ago

Another person in that thread said they did the same thing for 6 months during the quarantine. At least two other folks on that thread have said they know someone who did the same thing.

mtnGoat 6y ago

I don't know of any laws in the US preventing this. Unless one contact barred you from the other, in which case it would be civil.

animationwill 6y ago
Im not a tax lawyer or accountant but I don't see the IRS getting involved here either, nor it raising red flags, unless this went on for greater than a year. A W2 doesnt indicate the dates you worked for an employer, though the stock vesting would indicate overlap. Not sure about California tax forms though.
rajup 6y ago
Maybe not illegal from a tax point of view but illegal as hell for someone on a H1B visa (which quite a significant number of employees in these companies have).
- srtjstjsj 6y ago
  Could an H1B holder sneak past second company's HR/Legal and the filings?

jdminhbg 6y ago

> And tax office might be very interested at the end of the year. As long as you didn’t do anything stupid about withholding (and even then, it’s just a $ penalty you pay April 15 if you way underpaid multiple years), I don’t see why they would care. They don’t care if you have multiple part time jobs either as long as you pay your income tax.

Moto7451 6y ago
Correct. There are a lot of college students and adults with irregular employment that would have been rounded up and sent to jail otherwise. I worked simultaneously for three different employers in my late teens/early twenties including a part time job working for my city government. No one, especially the IRS, blinked an eye because this is 100% normal. Now if you’re in an at will employment job then the employer can just fire you if they don’t like what you’re doing, but the same is true if they woke up cranky on a Tuesday. If you read your offer letter they make it sound like some sort of law from on high that lets them do this but it’s just a basic principle of employment in an At-Will arrangement.

thatguy0900 6y ago

I'm not understanding why this should be considered bad? Presumably both companies are satisfied with his work output, and if not, are free to fire him.

andrewcl 6y ago
Disagreements on which company owns the IP generated by the employee might end up costing both companies more than the value the employee generates. Legal costs quite a bit. Another consideration, if this person is able to complete their work in half the time then this person was brought on at a responsibility level that was too low. Theoretically, the job should be taking 40 hours. It's the company's responsibility to load balance the tasks for their employee's to fill an FTE's schedule.
- aaomidi 6y ago
  This happens all the time though. Also no one is writing code 40 hours a week. Who on earth has the ability to do that?
  - andrewcl 6y ago
    A point to keep in mind, tasks does not necessarily equate to writing code. Think for example, writing a design doc, responding to email, or reviewing any kind of metrics. If this person was hired as a manager or a technical lead then the person might be doing non-code work.
- ryandrake 6y ago
  I wonder if it would be considered "bad" if one of the jobs didn't produce IP (code) and the other one did. Or if both didn't produce IP. Or if the companies were not direct competitors. If I had some "marketing manager" title at Facebook, why couldn't I also do the same work at Chase Bank or some other non-competitor, if both were willing to hire me on a WFH basis? What ethical line does that really cross?
  - 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

lallysingh 6y ago

The guy could be a contractor for both, and some details may have been lost in the telephone game. Also, the only thing that's a problem is the employment contract. They both surely have clauses about working for someone else in the industry, and/or listing any side businesses.

justinclift 6y ago
Wonder which one will have "exclusive ownership" of any created IP? If the roles are very different, it could be clear cut. If the roles have substantial overlap though...
C1sc0cat 6y ago
The contract would normally disallow working for competitors I know when the agency I worked for worked with Disney we signed an exclusivity agreement that we could not work with paramount MGM universal etc.
- jojo2333 6y ago
  Not true. Contractors, by law, have the ability to work when/how they want including for multiple clients. If there is something specific in the contract, it is a civil issue.

S_A_P 6y ago

I contracted for 4 companies at the same time. Not seeing a problem here. If the employee is 1) not using the IP of either company at each job 2) accomplishing his objectives at each company Where is the harm here? If you are a FTE what is the implication that you can’t work elsewhere as well? Is it in the employment agreement? If so I would say that seems illegal.

dilyevsky 6y ago

irs will just process two w2 - why would they care?

bluedevil2k 6y ago

> And tax office might be very interested Why would they care at all? If he's full-time on both, then he's having the taxes deducted from his wages. In fact, he'll get a refund at the end of the year because he's overpaying FICA (6% up to $110k on both jobs, when his maximum contribution should just be 6% up to $110k (not exact numbers)). If he's a contractor, then he has to pay estimated taxes on both jobs, just like someone would with 1 job. In either case, as long as he does proper accounting like anyone with 1 job would need to, he'll be fine in the IRS's eyes.

aaomidi 6y ago
They wouldn't. They'd get their cut and not do anything more. IRS basically never starts investigations from what was in tax returns as long as they get their money so they don't scare off people from filing tax returns and paying taxes.

toast0 6y ago

I mean, this certainly violates the employment contract of both Facebook and Google. I've seen only one of those, but I can't imagine the other doesn't have a non-compete against working for a competitor while employed (which is at least potentially enforcable in California). You might be able to negotiate that away, if you really tried. But breaching a contract isn't illegal. There's no tax issues, the IRS and the FTB don't care how many employers you have. Without due care, withholding will be off more than normal, but both employers will withhold for employee social security, and assuming combined wages are over the contribution limit, there will be a refund of overcontributions. Having two employers in one year makes it possible to overcontribute to 401k, but that's managable.