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I have an old IBM mainframe which has a card only known as the Camel Card. There's practically no information about it beyond that it exists. Having looked at

I have an old IBM mainframe which has a card only known as the Camel Card. There's practically no information about it beyond that it exists. Having looked at the chips on it, there does seem to be an FPGA on it. What sort of equipment and software would be needed to extract that?

gvb 6y ago
You need to provide more information before your question can be answered (if it can be answered): * Chip manufacturer (Xilinx? Altera? Other?) - typically a logo on the chip. * Chip part number (typically the first row of letters and numbers on the chip - typically the second row is the date of manufacture in the form YYww where ww is the week of manufacture - all numbers are useful) Is there a 10 pin or 14 pin header near the chip? If so, check for power and ground on the appropriate pins for a standard JTAG pinout. https://www.google.com/search?q=jtag+connector+pinout https://www.google.com/search?q=jtag+connector+pinout If the card has a clearly identifiable JTAG connector and is a common FPGA, you should be able to look up the chip part number on the manufacturer's web site and find the software tools that support that chip. You will need to figure out which JTAG interface the tool set supports - if it is a newer toolset, it probably supports a relatively inexpensive USB-attached JTAG. If it is an older toolset, it may need a specific, often expensive and likely no longer available JTAG interface.
- cptnapalm 6y ago
  I seem to remember that it is an Altera FLEX 10K; I did scribble it down in a notebook. Thank you for common date information to look for. The machine was released in 1999, so I'm going to assume very much "older".
pjc50 6y ago
Bad news: even if you get the bitstream out, there isn't full reverse engineering of what it means for anything other than a few Lattice Semiconductor parts. But the required steps would be to identify how it loads the bitstream by looking at the pins which control this. Quite often this is from an external SPI device. That can simply be read out with e.g. "bus pirate" device. Otherwise, a suitable JTAG may give you access.
- cptnapalm 6y ago
  That's what I was afraid of. It is mostly to satisfy curiosity that I asked. It's a strange machine.
- SV_BubbleTime 6y ago
  > Bad news: even if you get the bitstream out, there isn't full reverse engineering of what it means for anything other than a few Lattice Semiconductor parts. This catches so many new people. Bitstreams are not firmware. They are configuration.
  - colejohnson66 6y ago
    And even if you do find out the format of the bitstream, you can’t exactly reverse engineer it with a “disassembler” of sorts; you need to RE it like how one would a die shot of an IC (just guess at what something might be doing and see if you’re right).
sumtechguy 6y ago
I would say bring it up on one of the MAME boards. They probably could direct you into the right direction.
- cptnapalm 6y ago
  Would never have thought of that. When I have my notebook with all the notes I took on it, I'll give that a go.
the_only_law 6y ago
I'm curious too. I'm very ignorant on programmable logic in general, but I have some hardware with both a large FPGA as well as what I believe is a CPLD powering part of an embedded network interface controller I'm trying to put some missing links together for. I honestly need to stop buying old hardware before checking if someone uploaded a manual online :p

gvb 6y ago

You need to provide more information before your question can be answered (if it can be answered): * Chip manufacturer (Xilinx? Altera? Other?) - typically a logo on the chip. * Chip part number (typically the first row of letters and numbers on the chip - typically the second row is the date of manufacture in the form YYww where ww is the week of manufacture - all numbers are useful) Is there a 10 pin or 14 pin header near the chip? If so, check for power and ground on the appropriate pins for a standard JTAG pinout. https://www.google.com/search?q=jtag+connector+pinout https://www.google.com/search?q=jtag+connector+pinout If the card has a clearly identifiable JTAG connector and is a common FPGA, you should be able to look up the chip part number on the manufacturer's web site and find the software tools that support that chip. You will need to figure out which JTAG interface the tool set supports - if it is a newer toolset, it probably supports a relatively inexpensive USB-attached JTAG. If it is an older toolset, it may need a specific, often expensive and likely no longer available JTAG interface.

cptnapalm 6y ago
I seem to remember that it is an Altera FLEX 10K; I did scribble it down in a notebook. Thank you for common date information to look for. The machine was released in 1999, so I'm going to assume very much "older".

pjc50 6y ago

Bad news: even if you get the bitstream out, there isn't full reverse engineering of what it means for anything other than a few Lattice Semiconductor parts. But the required steps would be to identify how it loads the bitstream by looking at the pins which control this. Quite often this is from an external SPI device. That can simply be read out with e.g. "bus pirate" device. Otherwise, a suitable JTAG may give you access.

cptnapalm 6y ago
That's what I was afraid of. It is mostly to satisfy curiosity that I asked. It's a strange machine.
SV_BubbleTime 6y ago
> Bad news: even if you get the bitstream out, there isn't full reverse engineering of what it means for anything other than a few Lattice Semiconductor parts. This catches so many new people. Bitstreams are not firmware. They are configuration.
- colejohnson66 6y ago
  And even if you do find out the format of the bitstream, you can’t exactly reverse engineer it with a “disassembler” of sorts; you need to RE it like how one would a die shot of an IC (just guess at what something might be doing and see if you’re right).

sumtechguy 6y ago

I would say bring it up on one of the MAME boards. They probably could direct you into the right direction.

cptnapalm 6y ago
Would never have thought of that. When I have my notebook with all the notes I took on it, I'll give that a go.

the_only_law 6y ago

I'm curious too. I'm very ignorant on programmable logic in general, but I have some hardware with both a large FPGA as well as what I believe is a CPLD powering part of an embedded network interface controller I'm trying to put some missing links together for. I honestly need to stop buying old hardware before checking if someone uploaded a manual online :p