4 ms·

I do wonder how long Boris is going to last as PM before he's thrown to the dogs by the 1922 committee. I assume once the steaming pile of shit that is Brexit i

I do wonder how long Boris is going to last as PM before he's thrown to the dogs by the 1922 committee. I assume once the steaming pile of shit that is Brexit is somehow "completed" by the end of the year he will step down rather than be replaced. If there's anything the conservatives have been good at over the past 10 years it's recognising when a leader has had their time so they can pivot to someone new.

arethuza 6y ago
They've only had 3 leaders in the last ten years - Cameron went after losing the Brexit referendum and Theresa May's departure was pretty slow and painful for everyone.
- poooogles 6y ago
  In the minds of many conservatives Cameron was very successful for the first 5 years so I'd ignore his first term.
libertine 6y ago
Well according to history it seems that once people see that the democracy and it's organisms are again back at work (like purging corruption, fixing major social problems/systems, or even a change in public perception) then the population seems to dismiss populist figures and place their trust back in the hands of moderate parties. Because in some sense these caricatures, like Boris, pop up when people are fed up with the status quo - even if they don't quite understand it, or if they are just able to see part of it. They just know something is wrong in their point of view - which is probably true. I can give you the example of Portugal, the population is so fed up with the cycle of same parties giving us the same outcomes (mostly fueled by corruption), and those parties refuse to handle the corruption... because you know, now it's their turn... and we're yet again in a set back. So an extreme right party is gaining A LOT of ground, and doesn't show signs of stopping. Our justice system doesn't have the tools (namely laws) to fight corruption, neither the bodies of the state have mechanisms to purge it. So, people are done with the status quo. Hopefully here we have some changes that will stop this event from happening, because it's a matter of time.
- soco 6y ago
  Interesting point, it also explains Spain and Italy. But in other countries I've seen those "anti system" parties coming in left/right pairs: Podemos/Vox respectively ForzaItalia/5Stelle. Doesn't Portugal have an equivalent leftwing counterpart?
  - libertine 6y ago
    >Doesn't Portugal have an equivalent left wing counterpart? We do have them, it's BE, (hell we even have a Communist Party) - yet they are part of a "coalition" with the current government, so they are part of the problem, because they are pushing some of their agendas and avoiding any other agenda that destabilizes the current governmental solution. So they are effectively part of the "system". What's the result? The polls show that they are losing votes and popularity.
    - soco 6y ago
      Also this is following the same trend: 5 Stelle and Podemos heading downwards, while the rightwing surviving all fine. Apparently blaming it on the foreigners is a universal and powerful differentiator. At the same time I'm sure it avoids focusing too much on changing the local mechanisms of power (just on changing the leadership), because in the end they're hoping to profit from them just the same.
      - libertine 6y ago
        Here they are blaming it on refugees, small minorities that receive government support, some criminal actors (like pedophiles), and politicians overall - things that generate anger in some people. Yet no one talks about implementing EU norms to deal with corruption, implement ISO standards for corruption in public organizations/companies, justice system reforms, ban politicians from having jobs in companies/organizations that had businesses with the state (law firms, telcos, energy, construction, etc - this is the standard path for a "successful politician" career in Portugal), etc. This is the true siphon of taxes, private deals where the state is always the underdog and has to pay rents in perpetuity adding up to thousands of millions of euros. It's not the support of minorities, or the refugees boogieman that's coming to take our jobs...

arethuza 6y ago

They've only had 3 leaders in the last ten years - Cameron went after losing the Brexit referendum and Theresa May's departure was pretty slow and painful for everyone.

poooogles 6y ago
In the minds of many conservatives Cameron was very successful for the first 5 years so I'd ignore his first term.

libertine 6y ago

Well according to history it seems that once people see that the democracy and it's organisms are again back at work (like purging corruption, fixing major social problems/systems, or even a change in public perception) then the population seems to dismiss populist figures and place their trust back in the hands of moderate parties. Because in some sense these caricatures, like Boris, pop up when people are fed up with the status quo - even if they don't quite understand it, or if they are just able to see part of it. They just know something is wrong in their point of view - which is probably true. I can give you the example of Portugal, the population is so fed up with the cycle of same parties giving us the same outcomes (mostly fueled by corruption), and those parties refuse to handle the corruption... because you know, now it's their turn... and we're yet again in a set back. So an extreme right party is gaining A LOT of ground, and doesn't show signs of stopping. Our justice system doesn't have the tools (namely laws) to fight corruption, neither the bodies of the state have mechanisms to purge it. So, people are done with the status quo. Hopefully here we have some changes that will stop this event from happening, because it's a matter of time.

soco 6y ago
Interesting point, it also explains Spain and Italy. But in other countries I've seen those "anti system" parties coming in left/right pairs: Podemos/Vox respectively ForzaItalia/5Stelle. Doesn't Portugal have an equivalent leftwing counterpart?
- libertine 6y ago
  >Doesn't Portugal have an equivalent left wing counterpart? We do have them, it's BE, (hell we even have a Communist Party) - yet they are part of a "coalition" with the current government, so they are part of the problem, because they are pushing some of their agendas and avoiding any other agenda that destabilizes the current governmental solution. So they are effectively part of the "system". What's the result? The polls show that they are losing votes and popularity.
  - soco 6y ago
    Also this is following the same trend: 5 Stelle and Podemos heading downwards, while the rightwing surviving all fine. Apparently blaming it on the foreigners is a universal and powerful differentiator. At the same time I'm sure it avoids focusing too much on changing the local mechanisms of power (just on changing the leadership), because in the end they're hoping to profit from them just the same.
    - libertine 6y ago
      Here they are blaming it on refugees, small minorities that receive government support, some criminal actors (like pedophiles), and politicians overall - things that generate anger in some people. Yet no one talks about implementing EU norms to deal with corruption, implement ISO standards for corruption in public organizations/companies, justice system reforms, ban politicians from having jobs in companies/organizations that had businesses with the state (law firms, telcos, energy, construction, etc - this is the standard path for a "successful politician" career in Portugal), etc. This is the true siphon of taxes, private deals where the state is always the underdog and has to pay rents in perpetuity adding up to thousands of millions of euros. It's not the support of minorities, or the refugees boogieman that's coming to take our jobs...