4 ms·

We looked around for quite some time before we found a car that fits three car seats in the back. (Mind you, we're talking European cars here, there's a chance

by kleiba 6y ago

We looked around for quite some time before we found a car that fits three car seats in the back. (Mind you, we're talking European cars here, there's a chance our options would have been greater in North America.) However, it only took us a little longer because we weren't keen on a (mini) van -- had we considered vans too, there would have been a lot more options, and they're often even more affordable than other types of (spacious) cars. I understand that not everyone can afford to go out and buy a new car -- but if that is in your way of having more children, I'd say the reason was not the car seat requirement but cost considerations. And I think that's very much a reasonable consideration. I don't buy the "only 57 child deaths" argument - besides obviously being ethically questionable, deaths is not the only thing you want to prevent: how about (severe) non-lethal injuries? The reason car seats are mandatory (and regulated, too) is not because there is a strong car seat lobby but because of the merits they provide. For instance, buckling up a child that isn't tall enough yet bears the risk of getting the belt wrapped around their neck instead of across their chest which in case of an impact is certainly not what you want. You don't have to be a rocket surgeon to find the narrative of this paper questionable. Being a parent myself, I find it very hard to imagine a couple going: "Oh, we would so love to have a third child if it wasn't for that dang car seat problem..." Not that it's completely inconceivable but, I mean, come on...

saagarjha 6y ago
Excellent word choice on that last sentence ;)
bbarn 6y ago
I think your point of "cost considerations" is at the heart of what bothers me about this paper. The laws about seatbelts, car seats, etc. came at the same time as a general sense of more parental responsibility as a whole. A few decades earlier the cost of additional children was much lower in every way.
ziotom78 6y ago
> Being a parent myself, I find it very hard to imagine a couple going: "Oh, we would so love to have a third child if it wasn't for that dang car seat problem..." Not that it's completely inconceivable but, I mean, come on... I and my wife have three children, and a few years ago we seriously considered having another one. There were several factors that led us to give up with this idea (moving to a larger house, increased tuition costs, etc.), but surely the act of buying a larger car was something we listed among the cons, and it played a non-negligible role in our final decision.
michaelt 6y ago
> I find it very hard to imagine a couple going: "Oh, we would so love to have a third child if it wasn't for that dang car seat problem..." Maybe not - but imagine someone who likes the idea of having a third, but they know it would give them this much more childcare to do, and would put that much strain on their household budget, and they're not as young as they were a few years ago, and they could really do with an extra bedroom and bathroom which would mean moving house, and they were getting childcare from grandma and grandpa and two is enough to tire them out already? They might already have their heart and their head pulling in different directions. Add on the fact they've got to spend $x0,000 on a new minivan, and it'll be a downgrade in everything except number of seats...
- kleiba 6y ago
  I'm not sure if you read my original comment but I am very sympathetic toward the idea that economic consideration can absolutely play a role in your family planning.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
munificent 6y ago
> Being a parent myself, I find it very hard to imagine a couple going: "Oh, we would so love to have a third child if it wasn't for that dang car seat problem..." Not that it's completely inconceivable but, I mean, come on... Sure in that scenario. But consider other scenarios where the parents are right on the fence with their decision. At that point, even simple pragmatic considerations like number of bedrooms can tip it one way or the other.
- kleiba 6y ago
  But then it would still likely be a mix of different considerations. Certainly, no-one would go through their list and with all the boxes ticked except for "[ ] third car seat fits in our car" decide against having another child. Like I wrote above, it's not completely inconceivable, I just find it highly unlikely that the car seat question alone should be the deciding factor.

by kleiba 6y ago

saagarjha 6y ago

Excellent word choice on that last sentence ;)

bbarn 6y ago

I think your point of "cost considerations" is at the heart of what bothers me about this paper. The laws about seatbelts, car seats, etc. came at the same time as a general sense of more parental responsibility as a whole. A few decades earlier the cost of additional children was much lower in every way.

ziotom78 6y ago

> Being a parent myself, I find it very hard to imagine a couple going: "Oh, we would so love to have a third child if it wasn't for that dang car seat problem..." Not that it's completely inconceivable but, I mean, come on... I and my wife have three children, and a few years ago we seriously considered having another one. There were several factors that led us to give up with this idea (moving to a larger house, increased tuition costs, etc.), but surely the act of buying a larger car was something we listed among the cons, and it played a non-negligible role in our final decision.

michaelt 6y ago

> I find it very hard to imagine a couple going: "Oh, we would so love to have a third child if it wasn't for that dang car seat problem..." Maybe not - but imagine someone who likes the idea of having a third, but they know it would give them this much more childcare to do, and would put that much strain on their household budget, and they're not as young as they were a few years ago, and they could really do with an extra bedroom and bathroom which would mean moving house, and they were getting childcare from grandma and grandpa and two is enough to tire them out already? They might already have their heart and their head pulling in different directions. Add on the fact they've got to spend $x0,000 on a new minivan, and it'll be a downgrade in everything except number of seats...

kleiba 6y ago
I'm not sure if you read my original comment but I am very sympathetic toward the idea that economic consideration can absolutely play a role in your family planning.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

munificent 6y ago

> Being a parent myself, I find it very hard to imagine a couple going: "Oh, we would so love to have a third child if it wasn't for that dang car seat problem..." Not that it's completely inconceivable but, I mean, come on... Sure in that scenario. But consider other scenarios where the parents are right on the fence with their decision. At that point, even simple pragmatic considerations like number of bedrooms can tip it one way or the other.

kleiba 6y ago
But then it would still likely be a mix of different considerations. Certainly, no-one would go through their list and with all the boxes ticked except for "[ ] third car seat fits in our car" decide against having another child. Like I wrote above, it's not completely inconceivable, I just find it highly unlikely that the car seat question alone should be the deciding factor.