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Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny describes his poisoning with Novichok

18 points by FrojoS 6y ago

sschueller 6y ago
The US keeps attacking Germany for building the Nord Stream 2 but at the same time you have the president giving a speach to the UN declaring America first and that each nation should also do what's best for them first. For Germany that is securing gas and not releieing on a single source like the US for its energy. I don't see how it makes any sense for Putin to poison Alexei. There is zero benefit for him. However an anti Putin oligarch or the US (which we found out recently wanted to poison Asange. I wonder what they would have used and who they would have been blamed... ) have something to gain.
- mcv 6y ago
  Why does it not make sense for Putin to poison Navalny? He his regime has a history of poisoning opponents and dissidents. Putin clearly doesn't like political opposition that is gaining a bit too much steam. Whether it's rational from a non-Putin perspective doesn't matter; it fits the behaviour we know from Putin. But why would an anti-Putin oligarch poison Putin's opponents for him?
- adriancr 6y ago
  Too bad Novichok is only made in Russia at specific labs right? Also has been used in the past in public in the UK by Putin without problem?
  - sschueller 6y ago
    That is incorrect : "Russian scientists who developed the nerve agents claim they are the deadliest ever made, with some variants possibly five to eight times more potent than VX,[8][9] and others up to ten times more potent than soman.[10] As well as Russia, Novichok agents have been known to be produced by scientists "in several NATO member states"[11] and Iran.[12]" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novichok_agent https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novichok_agent
    - adriancr 6y ago
      If you go to the source [11] it's this: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-russia-chemicalweapons-german/wests-knowledge-of-novichok-came-from-sample-secured-in-1990s-report-idUSKCN1IH2HC https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-russia-chemicalwe... Which basically says NATO countries have possible antidotes and can easily detect Novichok, not that they produce the nerve agent. (que surprised Pikachu Putin when Britain detected it almost immediately) This is ignoring the insanity of NATO poisoning a guy that may bring genuine democracy to Russia. [12] is even more dubious as it links to papers that describe methods to detect nerve agents in environments... (even though I don't like Iran, it's doubtful they would produce Russian nerve agent instead of a variant of their own, they still want to detect it if they go to war with Russia for some reason) The other option you mentioned - anti-Putin Oligarch makes even less sense... you think private individuals can synthesize nerve agent or steal it?, that's a really dangerous supposition.

18 points by FrojoS 6y ago

The US keeps attacking Germany for building the Nord Stream 2 but at the same time you have the president giving a speach to the UN declaring America first and that each nation should also do what's best for them first. For Germany that is securing gas and not releieing on a single source like the US for its energy. I don't see how it makes any sense for Putin to poison Alexei. There is zero benefit for him. However an anti Putin oligarch or the US (which we found out recently wanted to poison Asange. I wonder what they would have used and who they would have been blamed... ) have something to gain.

mcv 6y ago
Why does it not make sense for Putin to poison Navalny? He his regime has a history of poisoning opponents and dissidents. Putin clearly doesn't like political opposition that is gaining a bit too much steam. Whether it's rational from a non-Putin perspective doesn't matter; it fits the behaviour we know from Putin. But why would an anti-Putin oligarch poison Putin's opponents for him?
adriancr 6y ago
Too bad Novichok is only made in Russia at specific labs right? Also has been used in the past in public in the UK by Putin without problem?
- sschueller 6y ago
  That is incorrect : "Russian scientists who developed the nerve agents claim they are the deadliest ever made, with some variants possibly five to eight times more potent than VX,[8][9] and others up to ten times more potent than soman.[10] As well as Russia, Novichok agents have been known to be produced by scientists "in several NATO member states"[11] and Iran.[12]" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novichok_agent https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novichok_agent
  - adriancr 6y ago
    If you go to the source [11] it's this: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-russia-chemicalweapons-german/wests-knowledge-of-novichok-came-from-sample-secured-in-1990s-report-idUSKCN1IH2HC https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-russia-chemicalwe... Which basically says NATO countries have possible antidotes and can easily detect Novichok, not that they produce the nerve agent. (que surprised Pikachu Putin when Britain detected it almost immediately) This is ignoring the insanity of NATO poisoning a guy that may bring genuine democracy to Russia. [12] is even more dubious as it links to papers that describe methods to detect nerve agents in environments... (even though I don't like Iran, it's doubtful they would produce Russian nerve agent instead of a variant of their own, they still want to detect it if they go to war with Russia for some reason) The other option you mentioned - anti-Putin Oligarch makes even less sense... you think private individuals can synthesize nerve agent or steal it?, that's a really dangerous supposition.