6 ms·

How Many Silicon Valley Startup Executives Are Hopped Up On Provigil?

29 points by jmorin007 18y ago

gaika 18y ago
Sleepless vs sleepers, are we approaching the world of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beggars_in_Spain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beggars_in_Spain ?
- 131072 18y ago
  Don't get too carried away with the hype about Provigil. It allows you to sleep less and may cause a mild increase in focus, with possibly fewer long term effects than amphetamine-type drugs (speed, ritalin, etc). IE Provigil users don't seem to turn into tweakers. It is safer but less effective than good old fashioned amphetamine for actually getting stuff done. If you're just a regular person trying to live a semblance of a balanced lifestyle (for this purpose I will include working a regular 8-to-6 job) the biggest effect of provigil is likely to be to make you say 'so what?' If you are used to the caffeine-shakes and twitches that come at the rough end of an all-nighter, Provigil can take that away to some extent. The psychological price you pay for doing this too often is unknown, though. Having said that, it is useful to get you out of a jam if you stay up partying all night and need to drag yourself to work the next morning. And best of all, if you are in the UK, the NHS pays for it all. In other countries you often have to pay up to several USD per pill and it can take up to 4 pills to be effective. Edit: Based on my experience, I would consider use of Provigil during a true work crunch or crisis that can only be solved by a burst of long work hours. However, if your masters get used to your performance at that level under those conditions, you might learn more about the expression 'burning the candle at both ends' than you want to know.
swombat 18y ago
I’ve taken Modafinil extensively while I was launching my first start-up and still working full time. For six months I was waking up at 4am every day, working until 7am, having a one-hour nap, then off to work until 6pm… Bed-time around 10-11pm. I wouldn’t have been able to launch without Modafinil (I’m actually using Alertec rather than Provigil, it’s a bit cheaper). Those days I took up to 1.5 pills a day (150mg) - 1 pill 1 hour before waking up, to make the most of that 3-hour slot, then half a pill half-way through the day to allow me to keep productive at work. I still use it occasionally, to boost a specific day’s productivity. I think taking it as described (and as I did while launching my first start-up) is abusing it and asking for trouble later, but using it to get an odd boost of concentration (which suddenly allows me to work like a beast for about 12 hours and get huge amounts of technical work done in that time, particularly in combination with a little caffeine) is ok and doesn’t have any side-effects - just make sure you drink plenty of water (sometimes on Modafinil thirst can also seem like a bit of a distraction, but you will get a mild headache if you don’t drink anything). Also, I only take half-pills now, so the max I ever do is 50mg in one day. I’m in London, though, not Silicon Valley.
- tptacek 18y ago
  There are several places in this comment where you forgot to write "that I know of".
- edw519 18y ago
  I wouldn’t have been able to launch without Modafinil... How do you know? Did you try?
  - swombat 18y ago
    No, obviously, but I was barely able to with Modafinil. Perhaps better phrased: I wouldn't have been able to pull those hours without Modafinil. That, I have tried, and failed.
    - brent 18y ago
      What? You _needed_ a drug to pull 13 hour work days with 5-6 hours of sleep? Did you try a cup or two of coffee?
      - LogicHoleFlaw 18y ago
        Ah.... caffeine counts as a drug too.
      - swombat 18y ago
        It was more about the quality of those hours than about the quantity. Both my day job and my start-up were very challenging (I worked in a large consulting company, at an investment banking client... not the place to fall asleep on the job). The modafinil meant that each and everyone of those hours was highly productive, instead of spending most of that time in a zombie-like state. Of course I tried coffee. It really doesn't help me that much, though. I end up feeling very awake, sure, but very jittery (not good when projecting an air of confidence to your clients at the bank) and even more distractable (considering how distractable I am to begin with, that's something!). Modafinil, on the other hand, focuses me like a laser.
menloparkbum 18y ago
"What’s so funny is that entrepreneurs apparently aren’t interested in typical drugs - instead they find the one that gives them a mental and stamina advantage" He must not pay much attention at his own TechCrunch events, as they are fueled by booze and weed with some coke thrown in for the bizdev types' girlfriends.
- LogicHoleFlaw 18y ago
  How much of a competitive advantage would a startup have if it strictly avoided booze, weed, and coke?
  - tstegart 18y ago
    I'll let you know when I start-up :)
eisokant 18y ago
Am I the only one against performance enhancing drugs?
- edw519 18y ago
  No. I am too. I have commented before on how offensive posts like this are for so many reasons. It ususally turns out to be me against the world. So I don't even bother anymore. But now that I saw your question, I decided to throw my 2 cents in (again). AFAIC, with few exceptions, everything we do is a marathon, not a sprint. So using crutches for sprints is, at best, myoptic. Any stimulant, I don't care which (food, drugs, etc.) has another side, i.e., what goes up must go down. One of the commenters on OP's site talks about this much better than I can. I really don't care what anyone does in private. But setting aside all the ethical, medical, and legal considerations, here is my biggest concern: Lots of people come to this site to learn and exchange; I'd hate to have them walk away with the idea than drugs are a good idea for their startup, just from the feedback of their peers. That's irresponsible.
  - cdr 18y ago
    I think I can see why it turns into "you vs the world". Can you back up those broad claims?
    - edw519 18y ago
      Can you back up those broad claims? What broad claims? I think I can see why it turns into "you vs the world". Sounds pretty much like you're making a "claim" yourself. Care to back up what you "see" with a little data?
      - yummyfajitas 18y ago
        >What broad claims? >Any stimulant, I don't care which (food, drugs, etc.) has another side, i.e., what goes up must go down.
        18y ago
kogir 18y ago
Some of that might be useful about now... :) I'm lucky (depending on how you look at it) in that I seem to be able to work long hours fairly reguarly without drugs.
deathbyzen 18y ago
FYI, the worst side-effect of Modafinil (beyond addiction) is that it makes your urine smell bad (or worse depending on what kind of diet you already have.) When Modafinil metabolizes it breaks down into sulfur and sodium, so you get salty smelly urine.
- tptacek 18y ago
  How do you know it's salty?
  - deathbyzen 18y ago
    ...
    - chris_l 18y ago
      Well, if Zen didn't kill you...
  - asdflkj 18y ago
    Perhaps it also affects your behavior in strange ways.
  - icey 18y ago
    I can't speak to the salinity, but I can confirm that your pee will stink terribly.
icey 18y ago
I've tried Provigil, and found it wasn't really all it was cracked up to be. The only thing it really does is make you less tired. I guess that's great if you want to be awake for 40 hours at a time, but for mental clarity and sharper thought: Drink water. Drink a LOT of water. I bet that half of these guys taking Provigil because they need the 'edge' have never forced themselves to drink a gallon of regular old water in a day. Soda, coffee, and tea don't count. You'd be amazed how many people spend years in a state of mild dehydration. Drinking water has given the biggest improvement to me mentally, far and away. In second place is not eating meat during the workday; but that pales in comparison to just drinking enough water.
- calvin 18y ago
  This is why I take a Nalgene bottle everywhere with me. 32oz of pure, unadulterated h2o (depending on the quality of the local water source).
  - Alex3917 18y ago
    Unadulterated? Have you never heard of BPA?
- JabavuAdams 18y ago
  Interesting.
fallentimes 18y ago
This is interesting, but honestly who cares if it's widespread. It's their respective bodies, as long as they aren't hurting anyone else, they can do whatever they want.
JabavuAdams 18y ago
It's all fun and games until your first psychotic episode.

29 points by jmorin007 18y ago

gaika 18y ago

Sleepless vs sleepers, are we approaching the world of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beggars_in_Spain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beggars_in_Spain ?

131072 18y ago
Don't get too carried away with the hype about Provigil. It allows you to sleep less and may cause a mild increase in focus, with possibly fewer long term effects than amphetamine-type drugs (speed, ritalin, etc). IE Provigil users don't seem to turn into tweakers. It is safer but less effective than good old fashioned amphetamine for actually getting stuff done. If you're just a regular person trying to live a semblance of a balanced lifestyle (for this purpose I will include working a regular 8-to-6 job) the biggest effect of provigil is likely to be to make you say 'so what?' If you are used to the caffeine-shakes and twitches that come at the rough end of an all-nighter, Provigil can take that away to some extent. The psychological price you pay for doing this too often is unknown, though. Having said that, it is useful to get you out of a jam if you stay up partying all night and need to drag yourself to work the next morning. And best of all, if you are in the UK, the NHS pays for it all. In other countries you often have to pay up to several USD per pill and it can take up to 4 pills to be effective. Edit: Based on my experience, I would consider use of Provigil during a true work crunch or crisis that can only be solved by a burst of long work hours. However, if your masters get used to your performance at that level under those conditions, you might learn more about the expression 'burning the candle at both ends' than you want to know.

swombat 18y ago

I’ve taken Modafinil extensively while I was launching my first start-up and still working full time. For six months I was waking up at 4am every day, working until 7am, having a one-hour nap, then off to work until 6pm… Bed-time around 10-11pm. I wouldn’t have been able to launch without Modafinil (I’m actually using Alertec rather than Provigil, it’s a bit cheaper). Those days I took up to 1.5 pills a day (150mg) - 1 pill 1 hour before waking up, to make the most of that 3-hour slot, then half a pill half-way through the day to allow me to keep productive at work. I still use it occasionally, to boost a specific day’s productivity. I think taking it as described (and as I did while launching my first start-up) is abusing it and asking for trouble later, but using it to get an odd boost of concentration (which suddenly allows me to work like a beast for about 12 hours and get huge amounts of technical work done in that time, particularly in combination with a little caffeine) is ok and doesn’t have any side-effects - just make sure you drink plenty of water (sometimes on Modafinil thirst can also seem like a bit of a distraction, but you will get a mild headache if you don’t drink anything). Also, I only take half-pills now, so the max I ever do is 50mg in one day. I’m in London, though, not Silicon Valley.

tptacek 18y ago
There are several places in this comment where you forgot to write "that I know of".
edw519 18y ago
I wouldn’t have been able to launch without Modafinil... How do you know? Did you try?
- swombat 18y ago
  No, obviously, but I was barely able to with Modafinil. Perhaps better phrased: I wouldn't have been able to pull those hours without Modafinil. That, I have tried, and failed.
  - brent 18y ago
    What? You _needed_ a drug to pull 13 hour work days with 5-6 hours of sleep? Did you try a cup or two of coffee?
    - LogicHoleFlaw 18y ago
      Ah.... caffeine counts as a drug too.
    - swombat 18y ago
      It was more about the quality of those hours than about the quantity. Both my day job and my start-up were very challenging (I worked in a large consulting company, at an investment banking client... not the place to fall asleep on the job). The modafinil meant that each and everyone of those hours was highly productive, instead of spending most of that time in a zombie-like state. Of course I tried coffee. It really doesn't help me that much, though. I end up feeling very awake, sure, but very jittery (not good when projecting an air of confidence to your clients at the bank) and even more distractable (considering how distractable I am to begin with, that's something!). Modafinil, on the other hand, focuses me like a laser.

menloparkbum 18y ago

"What’s so funny is that entrepreneurs apparently aren’t interested in typical drugs - instead they find the one that gives them a mental and stamina advantage" He must not pay much attention at his own TechCrunch events, as they are fueled by booze and weed with some coke thrown in for the bizdev types' girlfriends.

LogicHoleFlaw 18y ago
How much of a competitive advantage would a startup have if it strictly avoided booze, weed, and coke?
- tstegart 18y ago
  I'll let you know when I start-up :)

eisokant 18y ago

Am I the only one against performance enhancing drugs?

edw519 18y ago
No. I am too. I have commented before on how offensive posts like this are for so many reasons. It ususally turns out to be me against the world. So I don't even bother anymore. But now that I saw your question, I decided to throw my 2 cents in (again). AFAIC, with few exceptions, everything we do is a marathon, not a sprint. So using crutches for sprints is, at best, myoptic. Any stimulant, I don't care which (food, drugs, etc.) has another side, i.e., what goes up must go down. One of the commenters on OP's site talks about this much better than I can. I really don't care what anyone does in private. But setting aside all the ethical, medical, and legal considerations, here is my biggest concern: Lots of people come to this site to learn and exchange; I'd hate to have them walk away with the idea than drugs are a good idea for their startup, just from the feedback of their peers. That's irresponsible.
- cdr 18y ago
  I think I can see why it turns into "you vs the world". Can you back up those broad claims?
  - edw519 18y ago
    Can you back up those broad claims? What broad claims? I think I can see why it turns into "you vs the world". Sounds pretty much like you're making a "claim" yourself. Care to back up what you "see" with a little data?
    - yummyfajitas 18y ago
      >What broad claims? >Any stimulant, I don't care which (food, drugs, etc.) has another side, i.e., what goes up must go down.
      - 18y ago

kogir 18y ago

Some of that might be useful about now... :) I'm lucky (depending on how you look at it) in that I seem to be able to work long hours fairly reguarly without drugs.

deathbyzen 18y ago

FYI, the worst side-effect of Modafinil (beyond addiction) is that it makes your urine smell bad (or worse depending on what kind of diet you already have.) When Modafinil metabolizes it breaks down into sulfur and sodium, so you get salty smelly urine.

tptacek 18y ago
How do you know it's salty?
- deathbyzen 18y ago
  ...
  - chris_l 18y ago
    Well, if Zen didn't kill you...
- asdflkj 18y ago
  Perhaps it also affects your behavior in strange ways.
- icey 18y ago
  I can't speak to the salinity, but I can confirm that your pee will stink terribly.

icey 18y ago

I've tried Provigil, and found it wasn't really all it was cracked up to be. The only thing it really does is make you less tired. I guess that's great if you want to be awake for 40 hours at a time, but for mental clarity and sharper thought: Drink water. Drink a LOT of water. I bet that half of these guys taking Provigil because they need the 'edge' have never forced themselves to drink a gallon of regular old water in a day. Soda, coffee, and tea don't count. You'd be amazed how many people spend years in a state of mild dehydration. Drinking water has given the biggest improvement to me mentally, far and away. In second place is not eating meat during the workday; but that pales in comparison to just drinking enough water.

calvin 18y ago
This is why I take a Nalgene bottle everywhere with me. 32oz of pure, unadulterated h2o (depending on the quality of the local water source).
- Alex3917 18y ago
  Unadulterated? Have you never heard of BPA?
JabavuAdams 18y ago
Interesting.

fallentimes 18y ago

This is interesting, but honestly who cares if it's widespread. It's their respective bodies, as long as they aren't hurting anyone else, they can do whatever they want.

JabavuAdams 18y ago

It's all fun and games until your first psychotic episode.