6 ms·

> The assumption here is that perpetuating English and French stereotypes is morally equivalent to doing the same to black American. But it is, that is the ess

by Maci 15y ago

> The assumption here is that perpetuating English and French stereotypes is morally equivalent to doing the same to black American. But it is, that is the essence of a stereotype. If we take out the ethnicity factor and go into personalities your argument is the same as saying that it is embarrassing and damaging for Librarians to be labelled as boring and strict, for Managers to be labelled as conniving bastards and idiots, for Artists to be labelled as always high on drugs, for Nerds to be labelled as outcasts and acne ridden. I consider your argument flawed in that stereotyping will always have an element of "there's some truth in your fiction and some fiction in your truth". Fiction and Fact are two completely different things. It's a good thing many people appreciate fact. > This is tantamount to saying "I have a right to perpetuate racially-based stereotypes, despite any claimed or real negative effect they have, because my ability to be funny depends on it." Not just my ability but also that of the Film Industry, TV Productions, Stage Plays, Books, Music, which all continue to use any form of stereotyping for good or bad.

jessedhillon 15y ago
There are too many errors here to deal with. Just the fact that you think being an Arab is analogous to being a librarian for these purposes raises a number of questions in any reasonable reader's mind. Perhaps you think that some people are made librarians from birth and have no choice about the matter. Your final statement is not even a rebuttal, it's merely an appeal to popularity.
- Maci 15y ago
  > Just the fact that you think being an Arab is analogous to being a librarian for these purposes raises a number of questions in any reasonable reader's mind. Pretty much is man, it's just a label. That's all it is regardless of race, sex, color, religion, profession. For better or for worse. The root of the problem is people clinging to this fiction as fact. Time and understanding will fix that. Given my origin and the situations that come with it at times this philosophy is what works out best for me and those who are willing to listen, if not it's high time to find a more receptive audience. Foremost we're all individuals. And you know if you can't laugh at yourself... :) > Perhaps you think that some people are made librarians from birth and have no choice about the matter. I think that given certain genetic dispositions and the environment where a child grows up that is quite possible. > Your final statement is not even a rebuttal, it's merely an appeal to popularity. Turn on any source of information, labels on everyone everywhere. All neatly grouped and organised. Not pandering to popularity, Just stating fact.
  - dreyfiz 15y ago
    This is making less and less sense. The insight that labels are not the same thing as the thing, itself is a pretty thin one when you water it down like that. You’re taking a truth and turning it into a nihilistic premise that no label is meaningful, just because it’s a label. If that’s the case, programming must be a hellish experience for you, since it mostly consists of labeling things well.
    - Maci 15y ago
      Because it IS just a label. It has no inherent value or meaning. It's merely a descriptor which can be true or false. Hardly, Compilers make sense, Humans do not at times.
      - jessedhillon 15y ago
        I understand that you are trying to promote a vision of colorblind equanimity. While your intention may be genuine, you are, frankly, hugely mistaken in your assessment of the impact of racism. Let's apply your declaration of labels as meaningless is arbitrary to another situation: Surely you don't spend your time convincing women that the difference between consensual and forcible sex is a void label? That the concept of consent is a futile attempt to manifest an utter and complete abstraction with no inherent value or meaning. Would you insist that it doesn't matter if a woman -- clinging to the delusion that consent matters -- might be offended when you act on your conviction that consent is an illusion. Circumstances and context are irrelevant, after all! No. You would be a sociopath or worse, for pretending that a meaningful abstract act -- consent -- is meaningless because you can't understand it or are inconvenienced by it. Your entire argument is flawed by fallacious and/or bad reasoning. Based on what you've written, it's obvious that you've never been significantly hurt or impacted by racial discrimination. Consider, then, that you are greatly unqualified to be dictating to anyone the nature of such experiences. The authority with which you deign to define racism -- or dismiss it as non-existent -- is astounding.
        Maci 15y ago
- jongraehl 15y ago
  "too many errors to deal with" - cheap. You think that because it's possible to quit being a librarian, that negative stereotypes about librarians are okay?
  - Maci 15y ago
    By that token I ask are positive stereotypes okay ? To both I say yes, everything has balance. Without this balance we wouldn't have contextual discussion.
  - jessedhillon 15y ago
    No. Based on that observation, I think they are not morally equivalent.

by Maci 15y ago

jessedhillon 15y ago

There are too many errors here to deal with. Just the fact that you think being an Arab is analogous to being a librarian for these purposes raises a number of questions in any reasonable reader's mind. Perhaps you think that some people are made librarians from birth and have no choice about the matter. Your final statement is not even a rebuttal, it's merely an appeal to popularity.

Maci 15y ago
> Just the fact that you think being an Arab is analogous to being a librarian for these purposes raises a number of questions in any reasonable reader's mind. Pretty much is man, it's just a label. That's all it is regardless of race, sex, color, religion, profession. For better or for worse. The root of the problem is people clinging to this fiction as fact. Time and understanding will fix that. Given my origin and the situations that come with it at times this philosophy is what works out best for me and those who are willing to listen, if not it's high time to find a more receptive audience. Foremost we're all individuals. And you know if you can't laugh at yourself... :) > Perhaps you think that some people are made librarians from birth and have no choice about the matter. I think that given certain genetic dispositions and the environment where a child grows up that is quite possible. > Your final statement is not even a rebuttal, it's merely an appeal to popularity. Turn on any source of information, labels on everyone everywhere. All neatly grouped and organised. Not pandering to popularity, Just stating fact.
- dreyfiz 15y ago
  This is making less and less sense. The insight that labels are not the same thing as the thing, itself is a pretty thin one when you water it down like that. You’re taking a truth and turning it into a nihilistic premise that no label is meaningful, just because it’s a label. If that’s the case, programming must be a hellish experience for you, since it mostly consists of labeling things well.
  - Maci 15y ago
    Because it IS just a label. It has no inherent value or meaning. It's merely a descriptor which can be true or false. Hardly, Compilers make sense, Humans do not at times.
    - jessedhillon 15y ago
      I understand that you are trying to promote a vision of colorblind equanimity. While your intention may be genuine, you are, frankly, hugely mistaken in your assessment of the impact of racism. Let's apply your declaration of labels as meaningless is arbitrary to another situation: Surely you don't spend your time convincing women that the difference between consensual and forcible sex is a void label? That the concept of consent is a futile attempt to manifest an utter and complete abstraction with no inherent value or meaning. Would you insist that it doesn't matter if a woman -- clinging to the delusion that consent matters -- might be offended when you act on your conviction that consent is an illusion. Circumstances and context are irrelevant, after all! No. You would be a sociopath or worse, for pretending that a meaningful abstract act -- consent -- is meaningless because you can't understand it or are inconvenienced by it. Your entire argument is flawed by fallacious and/or bad reasoning. Based on what you've written, it's obvious that you've never been significantly hurt or impacted by racial discrimination. Consider, then, that you are greatly unqualified to be dictating to anyone the nature of such experiences. The authority with which you deign to define racism -- or dismiss it as non-existent -- is astounding.
      - Maci 15y ago
jongraehl 15y ago
"too many errors to deal with" - cheap. You think that because it's possible to quit being a librarian, that negative stereotypes about librarians are okay?
- Maci 15y ago
  By that token I ask are positive stereotypes okay ? To both I say yes, everything has balance. Without this balance we wouldn't have contextual discussion.
- jessedhillon 15y ago
  No. Based on that observation, I think they are not morally equivalent.