8 ms·

Just introduce a law that when the client tells the magic sentence three times they have to invoke cancellation part of the agreement no questions asked. Let pe

• DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
  IANAL, but I'm fairly certain that's already the case today - except the "magic sentence" is a physically mailed "please cancel my account" letter sent by USPS with signed-delivery to the company's registered head office address. All registered companies in all US states must respond to bona-fide customer correspondence sent to their registered address. It's just unfortunate that mailing a physical letter is such a pain. It could be worse: it was only 4 years ago I needed to cancel my HVAC installation with Sears Home Services and invoked my right to cancel the contract under WA law - and Sears required me to send an actual telegram (yes, the old-school, hand-delivered, all-caps short text messages) to their head-office address. I used this company: https://www.americantelegram.com/timedatestamp.php https://www.americantelegram.com/timedatestamp.php - to send it (and yes, it worked and I got out of the contract). But wow. I don't know how this can possibly be legal as it places an unnecessary undue burden on consumers unless there's some archaic legal carve-out for telegrams specifically?
  • lmilcin 6y ago
    I think if the company allows the client enter into contractual obligation by phone it should also be possible to invoke the cancellation part of the contract the same way. These days we get into so many contractual obligations (I can't even count the number of different subscription services I use) exactly because it is easy to make them and the law should protect users by preventing companies from making it hard to cancel it. So, if a company allows the client to create a contract by phone or Internet, it should also be easy to cancel it the same way.
    • pishpash 6y ago
      Or just information would be sufficient. I'd like to know the walkthrough for backing out of a contract as experienced by an actual person before I sign.
  • derefr 6y ago
    Obviously, there should be a SaaS API for sending templated physical-mail cancellation letters. The company could even keep a notary on staff to notarize everything they send at no extra cost.
    • kube-system 6y ago
      There are a good number of APIs that will mail physical letters, pretty sure they’ve been a thing since the dot com bubble.
    • anamexis 6y ago
      There was a startup called AirPaper that would do this for cancelling Comcast, $5/pop. It's no longer around, which I know because I was trying to look them up the last time I needed to cancel Comcast.
  • TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
    > All registered companies in all US states must respond to bona-fide customer correspondence sent to their registered address. I’ve never heard of such a law before, but if one exists, it would be individual state law since corporations are incorporated at the state level. Do you have a link for this?
    • DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
      > but if one exists, it would be individual state law since corporations are incorporated at the state level. Correct. My understanding is that every state has an equivalent law. I can't give any citations really, though - my own state (WA) buries the responsibilities and requirements for registered business' registered or agent addresses in multiple separate sections in the state law website.
      • TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
        Every state requires a registered agent with address within the state. But that is not the same thing as requiring a business to reply to correspondence.
        • tachyonbeam 6y ago
          Yeah, if that was the case you could snail mail DDoS them.
          • hunter2_ 6y ago
            Not if only bona fide requests need a response. If it came before a judge, you'd need each of those requests to mention valid actions regarding valid accounts without absurd/abusive redundancy.
            • Strilanc 6y ago
              They'd have to open and read the bad requests to filter them out and find the good requests.
  • rorykoehler 6y ago
    Hasn't anyone made a Saas for this?
  • zachrose 6y ago
    How does the company verify that the sender is the customer?
  • sgustard 6y ago
    My company's head office has been vacant for six months while everyone works from home. Nobody's reading the mail. No wonder our cancellations are way down.
    • unnouinceput 6y ago
      Then what happens when people stop paying for said accounts? To my understanding once sent and deliver confirmed, as a client, that's all I have to do. Try to sue for not paying the service and I have USPS confirmation of said letter. Easy day in court for the client.
      • chrisweekly 6y ago
        "Easy day in court for the client." no such thing exists; having to go to court at all is an expensive hassle
        • DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
          Assuming you also aren't bound by how-on-earth-is-this-legal binding arbitration agreements.
  • awongh 6y ago
    I see this telegram company is using php. Nothing against php but I love it when technology from different centuries comes together.
  • himinlomax 6y ago
    > It's just unfortunate that mailing a physical letter is such a pain. In France you can send a registered letter from the post office's website for just a few euros. Upload your PDF, they print it, deliver it and email you a receipt when it's done. For a little more you can request a signature from the recipient. Since they keep a copy and record, it acts as a cheap form of notarization and is valid for many legal purposes.
• p4coder 6y ago
  Talaq! Talaq!! Talaq!!!
  • earthboundkid 6y ago
    Did you sign a prenup?
    • mardifoufs 6y ago
      >Upon talaq, the wife is entitled to the full payment of mahr if it had not already been paid. The husband is obligated to financially support her until the end of the waiting period or the delivery of her child, if she is pregnant. In addition, she has a right to child support and any past due maintenance, which Islamic law requires to be paid regularly in the course of marriage The prenup is hardcoded.
      • ArnoVW 6y ago
        Reality is, as often, more complex. I highly recommend the feature length fly on the wall style documentary 'divorce iranian style'. Entirely recorded in an Iranian divorce court: https://youtu.be/BBm8GqMNwXU
  • erklik 6y ago
    Interestingly, the common understanding of this is somewhat false. It's not that easy to simply divorce anyone in Islam. There needs to be arbitration by both families beforehand, and a three month waiting period. Only after that, should a divorce occur.
    • ibn_khaldun 6y ago
      This is entirely incorrect. An utterance of a single "Talaq" will render the marriage void until it is renewed.
• cactus2093 6y ago
  There's a law in California that if you sign up for an account online you have to be able to cancel it online. However I've come across a lot of companies that just ignore it, most recently Zipcar. I guess I could try to sue or something, but I feel like companies can just call the average consumer's bluff that you're not really gonna bother suing over this so they can just ignore the law.
  • artificial 6y ago
    I was not aware of this and was on a phone call to cancel service earlier today. Thanks! I found this in a quick search, https://www.cnet.com/news/companies-must-let-customers-cancel-subscriptions-online-california-law-says/ https://www.cnet.com/news/companies-must-let-customers-cance...
  • MiroF 6y ago
    > Zipcar As best as I can tell, Zipcar seems to be a shell of a company barely still functioning.
    • rrdharan 6y ago
      That’s because Avis acquired them back in 2013.
• gnopgnip 6y ago
  CA has a law that requires companies to accept cancellations in the same way you can sign up, online for instance, but it is mostly enforced against more serious scams, not legitimate companies that make cancellation difficult
• smarx007 6y ago
  In Germany a company must process physical mail requests, there is are sites with templates for a large number of companies, e.g. https://www.kuendigung.org/vodafone-kuendigung-vorlage/ https://www.kuendigung.org/vodafone-kuendigung-vorlage/. In many EU countries, post within the country almost never takes more that a few work days to arrive. Just trying to broaden the perspective, not start a heated discussion :)
  • chokma 6y ago
    It's also a good idea to cancel services via mail and to demand a written response confirming the cancellation. Otherwise, Vodafone (from your example) may conveniently forget the exact date of your cancellation... and good luck proving you cancelled an account on time if the confirmation SMS is now stored on a no longer valid SIM card, you cannot prove anything. Yeah, Vodafone ... still sending invoices which deny I cancelled my contract half a year ago. edit:grammar
    • Liquid_Fire 6y ago
      You should still be able to access the SMS messages stored on a disabled SIM. It just won't connect to the network. (Also, obviously you can copy the message to the phone memory, screenshot it, etc)
    • smerdyakov 6y ago
      Consumer protection is definitely lacking in Germany in this regard. Especially the automatic 6 month renewal of contracts if you don't explicitly cancel 3 weeks before the end of the contract! It really irks me. Automatic renewal is definitely not enforceable under e.g. UK law and I'm pretty sure also under EU law and yet it persists in Germany somehow. Argh!
      • levosmetalo 6y ago
        No, your contract doesn't get renewed automatically. In Germany usually your contract says it will automatically extend for a year unless cancelled. This basically makes your contract open ended with cancellation option, which you need to exercise if you want to cancel. You can also cancel your contract in case the other party change anything related to it. There's nothing wrong with that, you just need to read what you sign. And it's a common practice, not a surprise. If you want to be sure your contract will not extend, you can always hand over the cancellation request at the time of signing the contract.
• maeln 6y ago
  I know that in France (and I think in the EU in general) this exists. You send a letter, but in France a email is also valid, and they have to cancel your subscription asap. I actually worked for a company that implemented an AI to try to recognized those email to automate the cancellation process (there was still a human at the end to validate the cancellation to avoid false positive).
• TuringNYC 6y ago
  The magic sentence is usually pressing 0 a number of times until you get an operator. A more sophisticated approach is this https://pleasepress1.com/ https://pleasepress1.com/ -- they give you the sequence of numbers to get past menus to a human
• rmc 6y ago
  The GDPR, the EU Privacy law, allows processing personal data if the person consents to it. Consent can be withdrawn, and, as the law says, “It must be as easy to withdraw consent as to give it”. That simple formulation is easier. “It must be as easy to cancel a service/subscription as to sign up”. Able to sign up online? Then it must be possible to cancel online