4 ms·

So lockdown those places as needed, if that's what the people want. And reopen when the situation is under control.

by cwhiz 6y ago

jedberg 6y ago
In our modern world, people have the ability to travel quickly from one place to another. The only place we can block that is the national border. Therefore, we must have a consistent policy within that border if we ever hope to get this under control. Or we need to set up internal borders, which is quite against the constitution.
- cwhiz 6y ago
  >Or we need to set up internal borders, which is quite against the constitution. The federal government imposing nationwide lockdowns on each and every state is a gross overreach and completely unconstitutional. It's not an easily solved problem in the US system of government. We're a free country, or at least we pretend to be. Edit: This seems to be causing some confusion. OP is referring to the need to have "consistent policy across state borders."
  - ardy42 6y ago
    > The federal government imposing nationwide lockdowns on each and every state is a gross overreach and completely unconstitutional. AFAIK, it did no such thing. The federal government advised certain measures, and state and local governments (inconsistently) implemented stay at home orders, etc. based on their own authority.
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    I don't know if you're referring to reality or something you saw on TV, but the US federal government has taken literally no actions whatsoever to contain COVID domestically. They certainly haven't imposed a nationwide lockdown, nor are they empowered to do anything like that.
    - areyousure 6y ago
      The US federal government is funding the development of vaccines and other medical advances.
  - smhost 6y ago
    a country so free that it's functionally incapable of defending against bioterrorism
    - UncleOxidant 6y ago
      or even just a highly contagious virus that had nothing to do with terrorism.
  - jedberg 6y ago
    I agree with you, but this is one of those cases where the federal government would have a good reason for temporary overreach. Lots of other free countries have figured this out.
- jeffbee 6y ago
  Weirdly, I can't bring a grapefruit across state lines. But I can bring a primate carrying a deadly virus.
  - SilasX 6y ago
    You can't bring a grapefruit across state lines? What is that a reference to?
    - jeffbee 6y ago
      https://www.google.com/search?q=transporting+citrus+across+state+lines https://www.google.com/search?q=transporting+citrus+across+s...
      - SilasX 6y ago
        Yes, I can google. I was hoping you would extend the courtesy of explaining what restriction you meant. Intuitively, someone transports grapefruits across state lines. Did you mean you personally (i.e. average citizens), as opposed to a business with a permit? Or that grapefruits generally cannot legally go across state lines? I don't know of any inspections of cars for grapefruit except the well-known checks at the California border. Did you mean just CA and their ag inspections or something more general? This link [1] (dated 2017) mentions a quarantine. Is there a citrus pandemic in effect? (The link it gives is dead.) That would be good context to have. That link also mentions that you can do it, but need a federal certificate. Is that hurdle what you mean? I could go on, but the point is: all of that could have been cleared up by just saying what was in your head with that remark, rather than replying only to give a Google results link. Part of being a helpful participant on a forum is being clear on what you mean rather than expecting everyone else to read several Google results and guess. [1] https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2011/12/19/giving-citrus-holiday-season-four-things-you-need-know https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2011/12/19/giving-citrus-hol...
    - legolas2412 6y ago
      https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/plant/factsheets/BringingFruitsVeggies_to_CA.pdf https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/plant/factsheets/BringingFruitsVeggi... You cannot bring cherries into california from almost all USA states (except AZ, NV, CO, and WY). I experienced this personally. The state border crossing took cherries from us while we crossed from Oregon, less than 3 months ago, and dumped the cherries in trash. This is not limited to businesses, and is not a pandemic measure. This has been a long standing policy, meant to protect california's agriculture. Oh, the free trade exponent country has protectionism practiced by its states.
- samatman 6y ago
  Or, and I know this is crazy talk, we could use that same national integration to move sick people to places where they can be cared for. If South Dakota is running out of ICU beds, and Denver isn't, get them to Denver. Yeah, that's expensive... but is it nationwide lockdown expensive? Of course not.
  - jedberg 6y ago
    It's not just about ICU capacity though. If we opened everything up, then everywhere would get overwhelmed. We need to R0 down below 1 before we reopen everything.

So lockdown those places as needed, if that's what the people want. And reopen when the situation is under control.

by cwhiz 6y ago

So lockdown those places as needed, if that's what the people want. And reopen when the situation is under control.

In our modern world, people have the ability to travel quickly from one place to another. The only place we can block that is the national border. Therefore, we must have a consistent policy within that border if we ever hope to get this under control. Or we need to set up internal borders, which is quite against the constitution.

cwhiz 6y ago
>Or we need to set up internal borders, which is quite against the constitution. The federal government imposing nationwide lockdowns on each and every state is a gross overreach and completely unconstitutional. It's not an easily solved problem in the US system of government. We're a free country, or at least we pretend to be. Edit: This seems to be causing some confusion. OP is referring to the need to have "consistent policy across state borders."
- ardy42 6y ago
  > The federal government imposing nationwide lockdowns on each and every state is a gross overreach and completely unconstitutional. AFAIK, it did no such thing. The federal government advised certain measures, and state and local governments (inconsistently) implemented stay at home orders, etc. based on their own authority.
- jeffbee 6y ago
  I don't know if you're referring to reality or something you saw on TV, but the US federal government has taken literally no actions whatsoever to contain COVID domestically. They certainly haven't imposed a nationwide lockdown, nor are they empowered to do anything like that.
  - areyousure 6y ago
    The US federal government is funding the development of vaccines and other medical advances.
- smhost 6y ago
  a country so free that it's functionally incapable of defending against bioterrorism
  - UncleOxidant 6y ago
    or even just a highly contagious virus that had nothing to do with terrorism.
- jedberg 6y ago
  I agree with you, but this is one of those cases where the federal government would have a good reason for temporary overreach. Lots of other free countries have figured this out.
jeffbee 6y ago
Weirdly, I can't bring a grapefruit across state lines. But I can bring a primate carrying a deadly virus.
- SilasX 6y ago
  You can't bring a grapefruit across state lines? What is that a reference to?
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    https://www.google.com/search?q=transporting+citrus+across+state+lines https://www.google.com/search?q=transporting+citrus+across+s...
    - SilasX 6y ago
      Yes, I can google. I was hoping you would extend the courtesy of explaining what restriction you meant. Intuitively, someone transports grapefruits across state lines. Did you mean you personally (i.e. average citizens), as opposed to a business with a permit? Or that grapefruits generally cannot legally go across state lines? I don't know of any inspections of cars for grapefruit except the well-known checks at the California border. Did you mean just CA and their ag inspections or something more general? This link [1] (dated 2017) mentions a quarantine. Is there a citrus pandemic in effect? (The link it gives is dead.) That would be good context to have. That link also mentions that you can do it, but need a federal certificate. Is that hurdle what you mean? I could go on, but the point is: all of that could have been cleared up by just saying what was in your head with that remark, rather than replying only to give a Google results link. Part of being a helpful participant on a forum is being clear on what you mean rather than expecting everyone else to read several Google results and guess. [1] https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2011/12/19/giving-citrus-holiday-season-four-things-you-need-know https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2011/12/19/giving-citrus-hol...
  - legolas2412 6y ago
    https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/plant/factsheets/BringingFruitsVeggies_to_CA.pdf https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/plant/factsheets/BringingFruitsVeggi... You cannot bring cherries into california from almost all USA states (except AZ, NV, CO, and WY). I experienced this personally. The state border crossing took cherries from us while we crossed from Oregon, less than 3 months ago, and dumped the cherries in trash. This is not limited to businesses, and is not a pandemic measure. This has been a long standing policy, meant to protect california's agriculture. Oh, the free trade exponent country has protectionism practiced by its states.
samatman 6y ago
Or, and I know this is crazy talk, we could use that same national integration to move sick people to places where they can be cared for. If South Dakota is running out of ICU beds, and Denver isn't, get them to Denver. Yeah, that's expensive... but is it nationwide lockdown expensive? Of course not.
- jedberg 6y ago
  It's not just about ICU capacity though. If we opened everything up, then everywhere would get overwhelmed. We need to R0 down below 1 before we reopen everything.