4 ms·

Ask HN: Does school district matter for intellectual/academic ability

1 points by viswansh 6y ago

I did my primary education in India and now experiencing US schooling through my kid. After having watched documentary "Waiting for Superman", I have to say I am worried. Right now I am in an average school district and wanting to move to a good, by buying a million dollar house. Before I pull the plug want to know if there are any resources on how the kids succeed. Most people say schools don't play role its only parents. But I amn't convinced. Wondering if someone can shed some light

uberman 6y ago
Schools are absolutely and without question a big factor in education success. That is of course not to say that family and the individual are not factors. I think there is a second related question as well: "Is it 'worth it' to move to a better school district?" When we had children, we moved from a low performing district to a high performing district. In the old district taxes were low and 1 in 30 children who graduated went on to a four year college or university. That was fine as we liked the low taxes and did not have kids. In the new district, our school taxes are 3x what they were in the old district, but now the expectation is that every child is going to go onto a 4 year program in higher ed. The school has art, music classes and they are not teaching to the test. There is all around high expectations and active instructional intervention. Things that our the old system was not able to do. For us, this was "worth it" in the sense that we have the resources and want to spend them in a way to try to maximize the opportunities for our kids. I have not seen that documentary you speak of, but I can imagine it talks about the rush/flood of parents like me to "good/great" school districts and how that drives up demand for housing and increases costs for the community.
jimmyvalmer 6y ago
Public school teachers in the US remain largely incompetent especially in math. More important than the quality of instruction however is the quality of one's peers. A general rule of thumb is to reside where the money is as household income correlates with IQ. Moving to another neighborhood however is of course onerous at best and prohibitively expensive at worst. Thank goodness for the internet as home schooling, especially during these times, has become a more viable option than ever before in history. History and English are the easy parts: Matt Damon's remark about library late charges is spot on. The hard part is coming up with math problems -- maybe you could dig out your childhood ones from India. If that isn't an option, then take consolation in the fact that being a big fish in a small pond (a reasonably smart kid in a bad district) makes it easier to stand out with college adcoms.
- viswansh 6y ago
  Thanks. Would you know if the teachers pay differs by school district. I would assume they are getting paid much more at better school districts <> better teaching skills. Or is it all about resources
  - jimmyvalmer 6y ago
    Yes, of course, a rising tide (more money) lifts all boats. One wonders why you make a distinction between staffing and "resources." They don't call it "human resources" for nothing.
tgflynn 6y ago
If you can afford a million dollar house you can probably afford private schools.
- uberman 6y ago
  You might think so, but you might also be surprised. Monthly costs for a million dollar house are probably in the $7000 range at the moment. While the cost of tuition (not including room and board) for a single kid at the private school we wish we could send our kids to is $40,000 a year payable in two installments. To be clear this is for a primary school, not a college/university. We have 3 kids, so for us that would be 120k yearly for private education (no room and board just tuitions) vs 85K in yearly housing costs. There are plenty of places in the US where a million does not buy you much of a house. A while back I was offered a job in the Santa Barbara area. A nice little two bedroom until at the end of the international airport runway was a million dollars. To get something there in the range of our current house was going to cost 3 to 15 million. Needless to say, I did not accept their offer to take a radical reduction in our standard of living.
  - giantg2 6y ago
    I've seen private schools here (PA) for $5k-10k per year with a reduction in price for each subsequent child.
    - viswansh 6y ago
      He is right. Again the cost is delta. Right now we are already paying 3k for our home. So an extra 4k per month is what we will be spending for the schools for 2 kids. I think thats reasonable. Also not all investment is lost as the money is going towards equity ( even though its negligible in the initial years ). Wish the solution could be much simpler :)
PaulHoule 6y ago
I think it depends on the student making a connection with the people and activities of a school. One of my cousins was excited to go to a certain school because of its (American) football team but he did not get along with the coach. Your child might go to what other people think is a great school but not really benefit from it. Many people think it is harmful that people move to choose schools https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two-Income_Trap https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two-Income_Trap What you might find curious from this book https://www.amazon.com/Whiteshift-Populism-Immigration-Future-Majorities/dp/1468316974 https://www.amazon.com/Whiteshift-Populism-Immigration-Futur... is that there is both black and white flight from neighborhoods from neighborhoods that have asians moving in. Many of those people perceive that asians are competitive in a way that detracts from the atmosphere of the school to other people. The society as a whole doesn't appear to give asians the same benefits of educational accomplishment that other people get from it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_ceiling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_ceiling Myself I got a PhD but have mixed feelings about the academic enterprise, my son is not interested in college but instead he wants to get good at a blue collar job and I see nothing wrong with that.
- viswansh 6y ago
  Thanks. I'll get a copy of Income Trap. Might be apt

1 points by viswansh 6y ago

uberman 6y ago

Schools are absolutely and without question a big factor in education success. That is of course not to say that family and the individual are not factors. I think there is a second related question as well: "Is it 'worth it' to move to a better school district?" When we had children, we moved from a low performing district to a high performing district. In the old district taxes were low and 1 in 30 children who graduated went on to a four year college or university. That was fine as we liked the low taxes and did not have kids. In the new district, our school taxes are 3x what they were in the old district, but now the expectation is that every child is going to go onto a 4 year program in higher ed. The school has art, music classes and they are not teaching to the test. There is all around high expectations and active instructional intervention. Things that our the old system was not able to do. For us, this was "worth it" in the sense that we have the resources and want to spend them in a way to try to maximize the opportunities for our kids. I have not seen that documentary you speak of, but I can imagine it talks about the rush/flood of parents like me to "good/great" school districts and how that drives up demand for housing and increases costs for the community.

jimmyvalmer 6y ago

Public school teachers in the US remain largely incompetent especially in math. More important than the quality of instruction however is the quality of one's peers. A general rule of thumb is to reside where the money is as household income correlates with IQ. Moving to another neighborhood however is of course onerous at best and prohibitively expensive at worst. Thank goodness for the internet as home schooling, especially during these times, has become a more viable option than ever before in history. History and English are the easy parts: Matt Damon's remark about library late charges is spot on. The hard part is coming up with math problems -- maybe you could dig out your childhood ones from India. If that isn't an option, then take consolation in the fact that being a big fish in a small pond (a reasonably smart kid in a bad district) makes it easier to stand out with college adcoms.

viswansh 6y ago
Thanks. Would you know if the teachers pay differs by school district. I would assume they are getting paid much more at better school districts <> better teaching skills. Or is it all about resources
- jimmyvalmer 6y ago
  Yes, of course, a rising tide (more money) lifts all boats. One wonders why you make a distinction between staffing and "resources." They don't call it "human resources" for nothing.

tgflynn 6y ago

If you can afford a million dollar house you can probably afford private schools.

uberman 6y ago
You might think so, but you might also be surprised. Monthly costs for a million dollar house are probably in the $7000 range at the moment. While the cost of tuition (not including room and board) for a single kid at the private school we wish we could send our kids to is $40,000 a year payable in two installments. To be clear this is for a primary school, not a college/university. We have 3 kids, so for us that would be 120k yearly for private education (no room and board just tuitions) vs 85K in yearly housing costs. There are plenty of places in the US where a million does not buy you much of a house. A while back I was offered a job in the Santa Barbara area. A nice little two bedroom until at the end of the international airport runway was a million dollars. To get something there in the range of our current house was going to cost 3 to 15 million. Needless to say, I did not accept their offer to take a radical reduction in our standard of living.
- giantg2 6y ago
  I've seen private schools here (PA) for $5k-10k per year with a reduction in price for each subsequent child.
  - viswansh 6y ago
    He is right. Again the cost is delta. Right now we are already paying 3k for our home. So an extra 4k per month is what we will be spending for the schools for 2 kids. I think thats reasonable. Also not all investment is lost as the money is going towards equity ( even though its negligible in the initial years ). Wish the solution could be much simpler :)

PaulHoule 6y ago

I think it depends on the student making a connection with the people and activities of a school. One of my cousins was excited to go to a certain school because of its (American) football team but he did not get along with the coach. Your child might go to what other people think is a great school but not really benefit from it. Many people think it is harmful that people move to choose schools https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two-Income_Trap https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two-Income_Trap What you might find curious from this book https://www.amazon.com/Whiteshift-Populism-Immigration-Future-Majorities/dp/1468316974 https://www.amazon.com/Whiteshift-Populism-Immigration-Futur... is that there is both black and white flight from neighborhoods from neighborhoods that have asians moving in. Many of those people perceive that asians are competitive in a way that detracts from the atmosphere of the school to other people. The society as a whole doesn't appear to give asians the same benefits of educational accomplishment that other people get from it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_ceiling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_ceiling Myself I got a PhD but have mixed feelings about the academic enterprise, my son is not interested in college but instead he wants to get good at a blue collar job and I see nothing wrong with that.

viswansh 6y ago
Thanks. I'll get a copy of Income Trap. Might be apt