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IMO, Apple TV has been one of the strengths of the iOS ecosystem over Android. Chromecast has a lot of good integrations, but the dongle’s lack of a standalone

IMO, Apple TV has been one of the strengths of the iOS ecosystem over Android. Chromecast has a lot of good integrations, but the dongle’s lack of a standalone UI with independent controls made it awkward for communal living room use. Looks like this could be a strong competitor and the price greatly undercuts Apple. I’m excited to try it out.

scarface74 6y ago
With part of the cost of anything Google related is your privacy....
- criddell 6y ago
  I don't understand why this comment was downvoted. This is priced the way it is because the profit isn't in the hardware, it's in the viewer data. It's very cheap only if you set the value of your privacy to some very low number.
  - anoncareer0212 6y ago
    Anecdotally, techies are tiring of vague statements about privacy and 'you're the product', especially about Google. If theres a tangible cost beyond enabling ad targeting, people are still amenable (this has always been true for the general populace, Google has a more trustworthy image than Apple! Imagine that)
    - criddell 6y ago
      I think you're right about the attitude among techies - especially those around San Francisco - and I think that's part of the reason why our reputation is in decline. A lot of America sees us as a bunch of creeps spying on everything they do and they aren't wrong about that. Video records are a special class of data covered by the Video Privacy Protection Act. The tangible cost is the risk that your viewing history would be used to attack you. It happened before and that's what spurred the creation of that act.
      - scarface74 6y ago
        And that law has no effect on Google. Google doesn’t sell data to advertisers. It sells access to you. Meaning they aren’t going to send advertisers a list of 20-35 year olds who like action movies. Advertisers are going to ask Google to target their advertisements to that demographic.
        criddell 6y ago
        I'm not 100% sure, but I think there are also data retention limits and opt-out requirements as part of that act. Some states have stricter rules as well.
        scarface74 6y ago
        There is an opt out. The only retention policy is that records must be destroyed within one year after the account is terminated. https://epic.org/privacy/vppa/ https://epic.org/privacy/vppa/
      - anoncareer0212 6y ago
        To put it more plainly: Americans love tech and trust it, and not so oddly, in reverse order of how _tech people_ appreciate the companies. Look at these ratings, theyre in direct contradiction with your guess of what they are as well as your thesis: Amazon and Google both have above 90% trust, Apple has 81%. I've meditated on them a lot, and came to the conclusion there's a lot of class issues in tech spaces, and a borderline condescending paternal instinct towards users. Over 90% of people know their information isn't being 'sold' https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/2/21144680/verge-tech-survey-2020-trust-privacy-security-facebook-amazon-google-apple https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/2/21144680/verge-tech-survey...
        criddell 6y ago
        I'm assuming you put sold in quotation marks because you are being generous and are really talking about disclosure in a broad sense. Maybe those 90% haven't read stories like this one (which is about Facebook): https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-46618582 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-46618582 Or maybe they've never heard of a data broker? To be clear, I don't think Google sells user data, but do they share it with anybody like Facebook has a history of doing? That I'm not clear about. I think they may share it with other Alphabet companies. I think they do buy data from brokers.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      Why else would Google be producing hardware and selling it so cheaply if not to monetize usage data? Is there any world where the thin if any profit margin on Chromecast like devices are worth the revenue for a company the size of Google? Roku - the leading company in the space - made $1.19 billion in revenue. I doubt anyone thinks that Google will approach Roku’s market share. Roku is all about obtrusive advertising. Why would Google be any different? Do you think Google put a hard coded Netflix button on the remote out of the goodness of their heart? > Google has a more trustworthy image than Apple! Imagine that By what metric? https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/11/amazon-beats-apple-and-google-to-become-the-worlds-most-valuable-brand.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/11/amazon-beats-apple-and-googl...
      - shajznnckfke 6y ago
        Apple has sold tens of millions of Apple TVs. Apple doesn’t break out the revenue in their earnings reports but they have definitely made billions in revenue from the business. With that large install base, Apple has growing power to promote services in the video streaming market which is worth hundreds of billions. The more power Apple has here, the greater their ability to extract a cut from streaming service revenue as platform owner. This is relevant to Google as a player in the video streaming market, who also owns platforms that compete with Apple’s. It would be stupid for Google to not put up a fight in this market.
        scarface74 6y ago
        Tens of millions? No one thinks that Apple has sold tens of millions of TVs. https://macdailynews.com/2020/09/02/strategy-analytics-apple-tv-holds-2-market-share-in-streaming-video-platforms/ https://macdailynews.com/2020/09/02/strategy-analytics-apple... The global population of TV and video streaming devices has now exceeded 1.1 billion, with Apple TV / tvOS holding 2% share, according to the latest market share analysis from Strategy Analytics’ TV Streaming Platforms service. And this is from MacdailyNews. Definitely not an anti Apple rag. Apple has been calling the AppleTV a “hobby” for over a decade. There is a reason that Apple is making deals left and right to get AppleTV (the app) on competing platforms and now they are making deals with Roku to support Airplay.
- petra 6y ago
  Google already knows so much about you, it doesn't really care about your TV watching habits. But maybe, they'd like to put highly targeted ads on your TV.
  - cle 6y ago
    You don't think "likes action movies" or "watches romantic comedies" or "binge watches on weekends" are targeting segments that advertisers will pay for?
    - petra 6y ago
      I think they can statistically analyze which category one belongs to among those categories. Whether they can sell that capability to advertisers ? I don't know.
      - scarface74 6y ago
        So exactly how would they do that without my viewing data and why would advertisers pay for that when they can get better information from Roku and the smart TV manufacturers?
    - shajznnckfke 6y ago
      It seems like search intent data would be a great source of this kind of information that Google already has. I think this product is more about competing for market power as platform owner in the video streaming business, which is worth hundreds of billions of dollars. I’d guess it could tie into the ad business by showing attribution when ads for media result in conversions that play on the Google TV, although I’m not sure how big the opportunity is there.
      - scarface74 6y ago
        Who searches on Google for the movies and TV shows they want to watch on their TV?
spike021 6y ago
I've had an Apple TV for about 2 years. Last year I bought a Chromecast (against my better judgement) for my parents because their "smart" TV apps are awful. I would've bought them an Apple TV but they didn't want me spending that much on them, unfortunately. But long story short, like you're saying the Apple TV's UX is on another level from the (previous) Chromecast since it lacks its own UI and controls. It's definitely one of the painpoints that I've noticed my parents having difficulty with. Whereas Apple TV has an easy to use UI (other than individual streaming apps sometimes making their own media player UI, like Disney+ and Amazon Prime, which are awful).
- smolyeet 6y ago
  i agree. at the time i purchased an AppleTV because ChromeCast was just awful. I'd lose connection from my iPhone, browser, friends would lose connection. Streaming from Plex was terrible. I liked just being able to have a dedicated box but didn't want to get a Roku/FireStick. I'm glad they finally introduced this but it's a bit too late for me .
  - seppin 6y ago
    I hate that you can't browse media on your iphone while broadcasting to your appletv. Any video that comes up will take the place of what's playing on your TV
- jayd16 6y ago
  A chromecast is not in the same product category as a an AppleTV. You'd want an Android TV box/stick for that. Chromecast is more like a cloud connected miracast/DLNA target.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
owenwil 6y ago
The BIG difference here is that Netflix is fully integrated with the search/queue/discovery experience, along with all of the other major streaming services like Prime. Apple hasn't managed to land that one yet – having access to their content baked into the experience is a huge advantage, let alone not alienating Netflix as Apple did in the past with the TV app: https://9to5mac.com/2019/03/18/netflix-apple-video-service-tv-app/ https://9to5mac.com/2019/03/18/netflix-apple-video-service-t...
- judge2020 6y ago
  Apple is really trying to get to this too. To give some examples, HBO Max, Crunchyroll, and Disney+ all already integrate into the "TV" app on iOS (and almost certainly on Apple TV) where their shows/episodes are searchable and your incomplete watches show up in 'up next'. see https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/tech-talks/508/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/tech-talks/508/
  - pvarangot 6y ago
    Android TV already does that on versions 10 and 11.
  - anoncareer0212 6y ago
    Netflix won't play ball because of Apple TV+, was likely a massive strategic error for them to jump to that when they couldn't negotiate deals with TV channels
- babypuncher 6y ago
  I think that's on Netflix, and I wouldn't be surprised if it is because Netflix won't agree to whatever privacy rules Apple stipulates. Other services are searchable in the TV app. Given the amount of Netflix chatter my Pi Hole blocked from my Roku when I wasn't even using Netflix, data harvesting seems to be a big part of their operation.
  - owenwil 6y ago
    It's not about privacy rules of any kind, it's about Apple demanding too much control – similar to iOS, I suppose – meaning a bunch of big providers opted out. I get it. https://9to5mac.com/2019/03/18/netflix-apple-video-service-tv-app/#:~:text=Hastings%20said%20that%20while%20%E2%80%9CApple,content%20through%20its%20own%20app.&text=Reed%20Hastings%20confirms%20that%20Netflix,our%20shows%20on%20our%20services.%E2%80%9D https://9to5mac.com/2019/03/18/netflix-apple-video-service-t...

scarface74 6y ago

With part of the cost of anything Google related is your privacy....

criddell 6y ago
I don't understand why this comment was downvoted. This is priced the way it is because the profit isn't in the hardware, it's in the viewer data. It's very cheap only if you set the value of your privacy to some very low number.
- anoncareer0212 6y ago
  Anecdotally, techies are tiring of vague statements about privacy and 'you're the product', especially about Google. If theres a tangible cost beyond enabling ad targeting, people are still amenable (this has always been true for the general populace, Google has a more trustworthy image than Apple! Imagine that)
  - criddell 6y ago
    I think you're right about the attitude among techies - especially those around San Francisco - and I think that's part of the reason why our reputation is in decline. A lot of America sees us as a bunch of creeps spying on everything they do and they aren't wrong about that. Video records are a special class of data covered by the Video Privacy Protection Act. The tangible cost is the risk that your viewing history would be used to attack you. It happened before and that's what spurred the creation of that act.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      And that law has no effect on Google. Google doesn’t sell data to advertisers. It sells access to you. Meaning they aren’t going to send advertisers a list of 20-35 year olds who like action movies. Advertisers are going to ask Google to target their advertisements to that demographic.
      - criddell 6y ago
        I'm not 100% sure, but I think there are also data retention limits and opt-out requirements as part of that act. Some states have stricter rules as well.
        scarface74 6y ago
        There is an opt out. The only retention policy is that records must be destroyed within one year after the account is terminated. https://epic.org/privacy/vppa/ https://epic.org/privacy/vppa/
    - anoncareer0212 6y ago
      To put it more plainly: Americans love tech and trust it, and not so oddly, in reverse order of how _tech people_ appreciate the companies. Look at these ratings, theyre in direct contradiction with your guess of what they are as well as your thesis: Amazon and Google both have above 90% trust, Apple has 81%. I've meditated on them a lot, and came to the conclusion there's a lot of class issues in tech spaces, and a borderline condescending paternal instinct towards users. Over 90% of people know their information isn't being 'sold' https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/2/21144680/verge-tech-survey-2020-trust-privacy-security-facebook-amazon-google-apple https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/2/21144680/verge-tech-survey...
      - criddell 6y ago
        I'm assuming you put sold in quotation marks because you are being generous and are really talking about disclosure in a broad sense. Maybe those 90% haven't read stories like this one (which is about Facebook): https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-46618582 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-46618582 Or maybe they've never heard of a data broker? To be clear, I don't think Google sells user data, but do they share it with anybody like Facebook has a history of doing? That I'm not clear about. I think they may share it with other Alphabet companies. I think they do buy data from brokers.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    Why else would Google be producing hardware and selling it so cheaply if not to monetize usage data? Is there any world where the thin if any profit margin on Chromecast like devices are worth the revenue for a company the size of Google? Roku - the leading company in the space - made $1.19 billion in revenue. I doubt anyone thinks that Google will approach Roku’s market share. Roku is all about obtrusive advertising. Why would Google be any different? Do you think Google put a hard coded Netflix button on the remote out of the goodness of their heart? > Google has a more trustworthy image than Apple! Imagine that By what metric? https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/11/amazon-beats-apple-and-google-to-become-the-worlds-most-valuable-brand.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/11/amazon-beats-apple-and-googl...
    - shajznnckfke 6y ago
      Apple has sold tens of millions of Apple TVs. Apple doesn’t break out the revenue in their earnings reports but they have definitely made billions in revenue from the business. With that large install base, Apple has growing power to promote services in the video streaming market which is worth hundreds of billions. The more power Apple has here, the greater their ability to extract a cut from streaming service revenue as platform owner. This is relevant to Google as a player in the video streaming market, who also owns platforms that compete with Apple’s. It would be stupid for Google to not put up a fight in this market.
      - scarface74 6y ago
        Tens of millions? No one thinks that Apple has sold tens of millions of TVs. https://macdailynews.com/2020/09/02/strategy-analytics-apple-tv-holds-2-market-share-in-streaming-video-platforms/ https://macdailynews.com/2020/09/02/strategy-analytics-apple... The global population of TV and video streaming devices has now exceeded 1.1 billion, with Apple TV / tvOS holding 2% share, according to the latest market share analysis from Strategy Analytics’ TV Streaming Platforms service. And this is from MacdailyNews. Definitely not an anti Apple rag. Apple has been calling the AppleTV a “hobby” for over a decade. There is a reason that Apple is making deals left and right to get AppleTV (the app) on competing platforms and now they are making deals with Roku to support Airplay.
petra 6y ago
Google already knows so much about you, it doesn't really care about your TV watching habits. But maybe, they'd like to put highly targeted ads on your TV.
- cle 6y ago
  You don't think "likes action movies" or "watches romantic comedies" or "binge watches on weekends" are targeting segments that advertisers will pay for?
  - petra 6y ago
    I think they can statistically analyze which category one belongs to among those categories. Whether they can sell that capability to advertisers ? I don't know.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      So exactly how would they do that without my viewing data and why would advertisers pay for that when they can get better information from Roku and the smart TV manufacturers?
  - shajznnckfke 6y ago
    It seems like search intent data would be a great source of this kind of information that Google already has. I think this product is more about competing for market power as platform owner in the video streaming business, which is worth hundreds of billions of dollars. I’d guess it could tie into the ad business by showing attribution when ads for media result in conversions that play on the Google TV, although I’m not sure how big the opportunity is there.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      Who searches on Google for the movies and TV shows they want to watch on their TV?

spike021 6y ago

I've had an Apple TV for about 2 years. Last year I bought a Chromecast (against my better judgement) for my parents because their "smart" TV apps are awful. I would've bought them an Apple TV but they didn't want me spending that much on them, unfortunately. But long story short, like you're saying the Apple TV's UX is on another level from the (previous) Chromecast since it lacks its own UI and controls. It's definitely one of the painpoints that I've noticed my parents having difficulty with. Whereas Apple TV has an easy to use UI (other than individual streaming apps sometimes making their own media player UI, like Disney+ and Amazon Prime, which are awful).

smolyeet 6y ago
i agree. at the time i purchased an AppleTV because ChromeCast was just awful. I'd lose connection from my iPhone, browser, friends would lose connection. Streaming from Plex was terrible. I liked just being able to have a dedicated box but didn't want to get a Roku/FireStick. I'm glad they finally introduced this but it's a bit too late for me .
- seppin 6y ago
  I hate that you can't browse media on your iphone while broadcasting to your appletv. Any video that comes up will take the place of what's playing on your TV
jayd16 6y ago
A chromecast is not in the same product category as a an AppleTV. You'd want an Android TV box/stick for that. Chromecast is more like a cloud connected miracast/DLNA target.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

owenwil 6y ago

The BIG difference here is that Netflix is fully integrated with the search/queue/discovery experience, along with all of the other major streaming services like Prime. Apple hasn't managed to land that one yet – having access to their content baked into the experience is a huge advantage, let alone not alienating Netflix as Apple did in the past with the TV app: https://9to5mac.com/2019/03/18/netflix-apple-video-service-tv-app/ https://9to5mac.com/2019/03/18/netflix-apple-video-service-t...

judge2020 6y ago
Apple is really trying to get to this too. To give some examples, HBO Max, Crunchyroll, and Disney+ all already integrate into the "TV" app on iOS (and almost certainly on Apple TV) where their shows/episodes are searchable and your incomplete watches show up in 'up next'. see https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/tech-talks/508/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/tech-talks/508/
- pvarangot 6y ago
  Android TV already does that on versions 10 and 11.
- anoncareer0212 6y ago
  Netflix won't play ball because of Apple TV+, was likely a massive strategic error for them to jump to that when they couldn't negotiate deals with TV channels
babypuncher 6y ago
I think that's on Netflix, and I wouldn't be surprised if it is because Netflix won't agree to whatever privacy rules Apple stipulates. Other services are searchable in the TV app. Given the amount of Netflix chatter my Pi Hole blocked from my Roku when I wasn't even using Netflix, data harvesting seems to be a big part of their operation.
- owenwil 6y ago
  It's not about privacy rules of any kind, it's about Apple demanding too much control – similar to iOS, I suppose – meaning a bunch of big providers opted out. I get it. https://9to5mac.com/2019/03/18/netflix-apple-video-service-tv-app/#:~:text=Hastings%20said%20that%20while%20%E2%80%9CApple,content%20through%20its%20own%20app.&text=Reed%20Hastings%20confirms%20that%20Netflix,our%20shows%20on%20our%20services.%E2%80%9D https://9to5mac.com/2019/03/18/netflix-apple-video-service-t...