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My daughter is only two, not sure what I will do when the time comes to discuss this stuff. I need some way to make her understand that her sexuality is a valu

My daughter is only two, not sure what I will do when the time comes to discuss this stuff. I need some way to make her understand that her sexuality is a valuable thing, and she should demand a high price for it. Ideally a marriage and a house.

falcolas 6y ago
By putting a price on her sexuality, you'll be harming her as much as any other rando who offers to pay her for the same. EDIT: this has been on my mind, and perhaps it deserves more commentary. By putting a price on her sexuality, it establishes the precedent that her body and her intimacy are commodities to be sold. That if someone comes along with the right price (a bag of candy, $1000, a promise of protection), it's OK - if not expected - that she takes the payment in exchange for her body.
- jtbayly 6y ago
  You'd rather devalue? Then it doesn't matter if somebody else takes it by force. It's nothing of value.
  - falcolas 6y ago
    It's not a commodity that can be bought or sold. It's hers, no matter how much (or how little) someone pays. > Then it doesn't matter if somebody else takes it by force. It's nothing of value. This is a rather chilling position to try and argue for.
    - jtbayly 6y ago
      Exactly. That’s why I’m flabbergasted that you are arguing for pretending as though it has no value. If it’s hers... and if it is valuable... or even if just her ability to choose what to do with it is valuable (ie letting her choose how much to value it)... then it is appropriate to teach her how to protect it. If it is inappropriate to teach her how to protect it (because some feminist somewhere declared by fiat that it would be victim blaming to do so), then the only conclusion that can be drawn is that it has no value. She must never be taught to value it. She must never be taught to protect it. And thus, her choice is made for her: it has no value, and as long as those exist who choose to take it by force, her desire is meaningless. Society has decided she may not value it out lest other people have their feelings hurt because they lost theirs.
      - falcolas 6y ago
        There's a difference between value and price. The parent was putting a price on her sexuality (marriage and a house). I'm saying that you shouldn't put any price on it. A thing isn't valuable just because it has a price; and conversely something valuable doesn't need to have a price.
        jtbayly 6y ago
        Then presumably you agree that girls should be taught to protect themselves and that one of the ways to protect yourself is to avoid places where known rapists hang out with nobody to hold them accountable?
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
- opwieurposiu 6y ago
  How do you explain to a child that something is valuable but should not have a price? I am worried "love is free" is dangerously adjacent to "sex is cheap", the opposite of what I want to convey. Maybe the "price" in this analogy is time or commitment? Avoid the whole market comparison? Open to suggestions here.
  - falcolas 6y ago
    That her sexuality is hers, and hers alone. It's hers to do with as she wishes. That nobody - whether they be friends, family, or strangers - is entitled to her sexuality. That it's priceless - it's not something that can be sold (or held for randsom), no matter the price. Even in marriage, it's still hers. She can always say no, no matter how pretty the house, how rich the husband. And just as importantly - though perhaps after puberty has started - that because it's her sexuality, she's also allowed to say yes. Because if she can't say yes, it's not hers. Also, support her. No matter her choices, or what is forced upon her, support her through everything. Even if it was her choice, and she now regrets it, and it pisses you off to no end, support her. That's my opinion, and what I do.
    - opwieurposiu 6y ago
      Thank you for your compassionate comment. It always helps me to think about these things in writing. I can see a lot of merit in your ideas.
otikik 6y ago
Sorry but this is a very bad take. > sexuality is a valuable thing Yes. It can be a source of pleasure. But its value isn't transactional. There is one group which assigns transactional value to sex, though: Sex workers. > a marriage and a house. ”In a game of hypothetical questions, Lord Beaverbrook asked a visiting Yankee actress: ‘Would you live with a stranger if he paid you one million pounds?’ She said she would. ‘And if be paid you five pounds?’ The irate lady fumed: ‘Five pounds. What do you think I am?’ Beaverbrook replied: ‘We’ve already established that. Now we are just haggling over the price.” To be clear: I have nothing against sex workers (I have lots of problems with the system that enslaves and forces lots them). But by giving monetary value to her sexuality, you would be (probably involuntarily) nudging her in that direction. I don't have a daughter, but I have a 4yo son. Some day I will have to have "the talk". I have thought about what I would tell him. I would try explain to him that his sexuality is valuable, but not as a merchandise, but because it is good for him. Like food, or water. That masturbation is natural, but there are social norms. Where to get porn and how to clean after himself (just like when pooping). What consent is. And rape, and pedophiles. What STIs are. I will answer all the anatomy and ... mechanical questions, to the best of my ability. I will explain how a woman gets pregnant, how that can ruin their life, how to avoid it, that they can tell me, and what to do if they don't want to tell me. I will encourage him to discover what he's attracted to, and which social norms to ignore on this regard. I will buy him a box of condoms, put it on an drawer, and refill it when empty. I would suggest you do the same with your daughter. Perhaps we are too socially different to do exactly the same but: educate her like you would educate a son.

falcolas 6y ago

By putting a price on her sexuality, you'll be harming her as much as any other rando who offers to pay her for the same. EDIT: this has been on my mind, and perhaps it deserves more commentary. By putting a price on her sexuality, it establishes the precedent that her body and her intimacy are commodities to be sold. That if someone comes along with the right price (a bag of candy, $1000, a promise of protection), it's OK - if not expected - that she takes the payment in exchange for her body.

jtbayly 6y ago
You'd rather devalue? Then it doesn't matter if somebody else takes it by force. It's nothing of value.
- falcolas 6y ago
  It's not a commodity that can be bought or sold. It's hers, no matter how much (or how little) someone pays. > Then it doesn't matter if somebody else takes it by force. It's nothing of value. This is a rather chilling position to try and argue for.
  - jtbayly 6y ago
    Exactly. That’s why I’m flabbergasted that you are arguing for pretending as though it has no value. If it’s hers... and if it is valuable... or even if just her ability to choose what to do with it is valuable (ie letting her choose how much to value it)... then it is appropriate to teach her how to protect it. If it is inappropriate to teach her how to protect it (because some feminist somewhere declared by fiat that it would be victim blaming to do so), then the only conclusion that can be drawn is that it has no value. She must never be taught to value it. She must never be taught to protect it. And thus, her choice is made for her: it has no value, and as long as those exist who choose to take it by force, her desire is meaningless. Society has decided she may not value it out lest other people have their feelings hurt because they lost theirs.
    - falcolas 6y ago
      There's a difference between value and price. The parent was putting a price on her sexuality (marriage and a house). I'm saying that you shouldn't put any price on it. A thing isn't valuable just because it has a price; and conversely something valuable doesn't need to have a price.
      - jtbayly 6y ago
        Then presumably you agree that girls should be taught to protect themselves and that one of the ways to protect yourself is to avoid places where known rapists hang out with nobody to hold them accountable?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
opwieurposiu 6y ago
How do you explain to a child that something is valuable but should not have a price? I am worried "love is free" is dangerously adjacent to "sex is cheap", the opposite of what I want to convey. Maybe the "price" in this analogy is time or commitment? Avoid the whole market comparison? Open to suggestions here.
- falcolas 6y ago
  That her sexuality is hers, and hers alone. It's hers to do with as she wishes. That nobody - whether they be friends, family, or strangers - is entitled to her sexuality. That it's priceless - it's not something that can be sold (or held for randsom), no matter the price. Even in marriage, it's still hers. She can always say no, no matter how pretty the house, how rich the husband. And just as importantly - though perhaps after puberty has started - that because it's her sexuality, she's also allowed to say yes. Because if she can't say yes, it's not hers. Also, support her. No matter her choices, or what is forced upon her, support her through everything. Even if it was her choice, and she now regrets it, and it pisses you off to no end, support her. That's my opinion, and what I do.
  - opwieurposiu 6y ago
    Thank you for your compassionate comment. It always helps me to think about these things in writing. I can see a lot of merit in your ideas.

otikik 6y ago

Sorry but this is a very bad take. > sexuality is a valuable thing Yes. It can be a source of pleasure. But its value isn't transactional. There is one group which assigns transactional value to sex, though: Sex workers. > a marriage and a house. ”In a game of hypothetical questions, Lord Beaverbrook asked a visiting Yankee actress: ‘Would you live with a stranger if he paid you one million pounds?’ She said she would. ‘And if be paid you five pounds?’ The irate lady fumed: ‘Five pounds. What do you think I am?’ Beaverbrook replied: ‘We’ve already established that. Now we are just haggling over the price.” To be clear: I have nothing against sex workers (I have lots of problems with the system that enslaves and forces lots them). But by giving monetary value to her sexuality, you would be (probably involuntarily) nudging her in that direction. I don't have a daughter, but I have a 4yo son. Some day I will have to have "the talk". I have thought about what I would tell him. I would try explain to him that his sexuality is valuable, but not as a merchandise, but because it is good for him. Like food, or water. That masturbation is natural, but there are social norms. Where to get porn and how to clean after himself (just like when pooping). What consent is. And rape, and pedophiles. What STIs are. I will answer all the anatomy and ... mechanical questions, to the best of my ability. I will explain how a woman gets pregnant, how that can ruin their life, how to avoid it, that they can tell me, and what to do if they don't want to tell me. I will encourage him to discover what he's attracted to, and which social norms to ignore on this regard. I will buy him a box of condoms, put it on an drawer, and refill it when empty. I would suggest you do the same with your daughter. Perhaps we are too socially different to do exactly the same but: educate her like you would educate a son.